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Jesse “The Body” Ventura versus
Michael “The Mind” Shermer

by Michael Shermer, May 03 2011
Jesse Ventura

Jesse Ventura (photo by Cory Barnes, used under CC BY-SA 2.0)

On Monday afternoon, April 11, I appeared on Southern California Public Radio KPCC’s Patt Morrison show to briefly debate (dare I saw wrestle?) the former Navy Seal, Minnesota Governor, professional wrestler, television host, and author Jesse “The Body” Ventura, who was on a book tour swing through Los Angeles promoting his latest conspiracy fictions he believes are facts entitled The 63 Documents the Government Doesn’t Want You To Read. (The figure of 63 was chosen, Jesse says, because that was the year JFK was assassinated.) Presented in breathtaking revelatory tones that within lies the equivalent of the Pentagon Papers, what the reader actually finds between the covers are documents obtained through standard Freedom of Information Act requests that can also be easily downloaded from the Internet.

No matter, with bigger-than-life Jesse Ventura at the conspiratorial helm everything is larger than it seems, especially when his unmistakable booming voice pronounces them as truths. I had only a few hours to read the book, but that turned out to be more than adequate since most of the documents are familiar to us conspiracy watchers and what little added commentary is provided to introduce them appears to be mostly written by Ventura’s co-author Dick Russell, the pen behind the mouth for many of Jesse’s books. (Since he is no longer wrestling perhaps he should change his moniker to Jesse “The Mouth” Ventura.)

Surprisingly, given his background in the military and government, Ventura seems surprised to learn that governments lie to their citizens. Shockingly true, yes, but just because politicians and their appointed cabinet assigns and their staffers sometimes lie (mostly in the interest of national security but occasionally to cover up their own incompetence and moral misdeeds), doesn’t mean that every pronouncement made in the name of a government action is a lie. After all, as in the old logical chestnut—“This statement is untrue” (if it’s true it’s untrue and vice versa)—if everything is a lie then nothing is a lie. Likewise, I noted up front on the show, if everything is a conspiracy then nothing is a conspiracy.

Given the helter skelter nature of talk radio and Jesse’s propensity to interrupt through his booming voice any dissenters from his POV, I tried to make just four points. Let’s call them Conspiracy Skeptical Principles.

Conspiracy Skeptical Principle #1: There must be some means of discriminating between true and false conspiracy theories. Lincoln was assassinated by a conspiracy; JFK was not. The Archduke Franz Ferdinand was assassinated by a conspiracy of Serbian operatives that triggered the outbreak of the First World War; Princess Diana was not murdered by the Royal Family or any other secretive organization, but instead died by the most common form of death on a highway: speeding, drunk driving, and no seat belt.

Conspiracy Skeptical Principle #2: Cognitive Dissonance and the need to balance the size of the event with the size of the cause. Jesse Ventura said: “Do you mean to tell me that 19 guys with box cutters taking orders from a guy in a cave in Afghanistan brought down the most powerful nation on earth?” First of all, America is alive and well, thank you, even though Ventura has since moved to Mexico. But, yes, as a matter of fact, that is the only way such an event can happen: Sizable cohorts of operatives in prominent positions (Bush, Rumsfeld, Chaney, the CIA, the FBI, et al.) are too noticeable to get away with such a conspiracy. (By the way, 9/11 was a conspiracy: 19 members of Al Qaeda plotting to fly planes into buildings without telling us ahead of time constitutes a conspiracy.) It is the lone nuts living in the nooks and crannies of a free society (think Lee Harvey Oswald, John Hinkley, etc.) who become invisible by blending into the background scenery.

Conspiracy Skeptical Principle #3: What else would have to be true if your conspiracy theory is true? Jesse proclaimed on the show that the Pentagon was hit by a missile. His proof? He interviewed a woman on his conspiracy TV show who said she worked inside the Pentagon and never saw a plane hit it. Well, first of all, earlier in the show when I brought up Jesse’s conspiracy television series he discounted it, saying “that’s pure entertainment.” But now he wants to use an interview from that same show not as entertainment but as proof. As well, hardly anyone working in the Pentagon that day saw anything happen because they were inside the five-sided building and the plane only hit on one side, and even there, presumably (hopefully), people are actually working and not just sitting there staring out the window all day. But to the skeptical principle: As I said on the show, “If a missile hit the Pentagon, Jesse, that means that a plane did not hit it. What happened to the American Airlines plane?” Jesse’s answer: “I don’t know.” Sorry Jesse, not good enough. It’s not enough to poke holes at the government explanation for 9/11 (a form of negative evidence); you must also present positive evidence for your theory. In this case, tell us what happened to the plane that didn’t hit the Pentagon because there are a lot of grieving families who would like to know what happened to their loved ones (as would several radar operators who tracked the plane from hijacking to suddenly disappearing off the screen in the same place as the Pentagon is located). Finally, I directed Jesse and our listeners to to view the photograph of the American Airlines plane debris on the lawn in front of the Pentagon, below. Are we to believe that the U.S. government timed the impact of a missile on the Pentagon with the hijackers who flew the plane into the Pentagon?

Flight 77 wreckage at Pentagon

010911-N-6157F-001 Arlington, Va. (Sep. 11, 2001) — Wreckage from the hijacked American Airlines FLT 77 sits on the west lawn of the Pentagon minutes after terrorists crashed the aircraft into the southwest corner of the building. The Boeing 757 was bound for Los Angeles with 58 passengers and 6 crew. All aboard the aircraft were killed, along with 125 people in the Pentagon. (Photo by U.S. Navy Photo by Journalist 1st Class Mark D. Faram) (RELEASED)

Conspiracy Skeptical Principle #4: Your conspiracy theory must be more consistent than the accepted explanation. Jesse says that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda did not orchestrate 9/11, and instead it was done by the Bush administration (or, he says, at least by Chaney and his covert operatives). As evidence, Jesse wants to know why Osama bin Laden has not been indicted for murder by the United States government. As well, he says, why was no one fired for not acting on the famous memos of the summer of 2001 that warned our government that Al Qaeda was financing operatives in America in flight training schools and that Osama bin Laden would strike on U.S. soil. Hold on there Jesse—first you say that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda are innocent of this crime, and then you present evidence in the form of documents that the U.S. government was forewarned that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda would attack us? Sorry sir, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t hold to two contradictory conspiracy theories at the same time and use evidence from each to support the other. (Well, you can, but that would be a splendid example of logic-tight compartments in your head keeping separate contradictory ideas.)

Finally, in frustration I presume, Jesse accused me of being a mouthpiece of the government, just parroting whatever my overlords command me to say to keep the truth hidden. That conspiracy theory happens to be true, except for the part about the mouthpiece, the government, the parrot, and the truth.

Material from Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth
wombat reading Skeptic magazine

P.S. During my recent lecture tour swing through Wisconsin I was confronted at a restaurant by three 9/11 Truthers who were unable to attend my talk that night or even join the local skeptics group meeting that afternoon with me, and instead handed me a pile of literature and a DVD to watch touting the merits of the group known as Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, who appear to hold fast to the belief that the WTC buildings were intentionally demolished by explosive devices AND that the hijackers (whoever they really were) somehow managed to fly the planes into the WTC buildings at precisely where the demolition experts planted the explosive devices—at the exact correct floors, at the exact angle at which the wings were tilted, because that is where the collapse of both buildings began. Check it out yourself below, along with our issue of Skeptic on 9/11 conspiracy theories, which was being read in Wisconsin by the little Wombat given to me by my hosts at the University of Wisconsin.

58 Responses to “Jesse “The Body” Ventura versus
Michael “The Mind” Shermer”

  1. Max says:

    I wonder if Jesse Ventura denies that his fellow SEALs killed Osama bin Laden on Sunday. Several years ago, he told Howard Stern he thought bin Laden was already dead.

  2. Robo Sapien says:

    At least he was smart enough to keep this horseshit to himself until after his stint as governor was over, otherwise he’d just be Jesse “The Washed Up” Ventura. I’m sure the Minnesotans had no clue who they were electing, I mean, who actually researches candidates before they vote? That would be like reading the instructions at the seat by the emergency exit on a jetliner.

  3. Max says:

    Do the architect truthers really say that explosives were placed “at the exact angle at which the wings were tilted”? What for?

    • gdave says:

      No, that’s not literally what they say. What Mr. Sheerer means is that would have to be what happened in order for their conspiracy theory to match the facts.

      • Max says:

        Do they attribute ALL the damage to explosives, and none to the airplanes?

      • gdave says:

        They attribute all of the collapse to explosives. Check out their website at www DOT ae911truth DOT org, If You Dare. Their main line of argument is that the collapse meets a number of diagnostic criteria of a controlled demolition, and violates a number of diagnostic criteria of a collapse due to fire. No mention on the main page summary, btw, of the diagnostic criteria of a collapse due to being RAMMED by a JUMBO JET at 500+ MPH which then EXPLODED. Thing is, we have, as they would say in the NFL, indisputable visual evidence of the point of origin of the collapse, which is, of course, the point of impact. And the initial collapse of the upper floors above the point of impact occurred in exactly the same manner as the subsequent collapse of the entire building. So, as Mr. Shermer points out, their theory requires the demolition charges to be precisely coincident with the point of impact of the aircraft.

    • Rather than the new Skeptic, which may itself be good enough, I refer 9/11 conspiratists to the original Popular Mechanics story refuting all the claims that jet fuel couldn’t burn the way it did, etc.

      Other than that, I tell them Bush is too dumb to pull off something like this and Cheney and Mossad too slick not to have done a better job.

      • tmac57 says:

        A few years ago,A friend of mine at work started telling me about this “interesting” video that he had watched about 911,on the recommendation of his son who was a college student.You guessed it…’Loose Change’! I just happened to have a copy of that Popular Mechanics with me,and instead of debating the facts with him,I just said “Here,read this”.The next day he came in and said “Man I was really taken in by that video!” Skeptical win!!!

      • How many times does Loose Change need to be revised before people start clueing on to the fact it’s about as tragic as the Police Academy franchise?

  4. Marcus says:

    Bush and Cheney could not have been complicit in the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They were too busy doctoring pictures from the moon landing, hiding aliens at Roswell and tracking down Obama’s legal birth certificate…

  5. Bojan says:

    Conspiracy Sceptical Principle #5: Conspiracies are not necessarily mutually exclusive. While I do not doubt that official version is correct, I still wonder whether government played along by not reacting. While probably not true, it is a point worth investigating, but very hard to prove.

  6. Retired Prof says:

    A dozen or so 9/11 truthers marched In the “free speech” section of the May Day parade in Minneapolis. Everybody else displayed simple, striking symbols or slogans. The truthers carried placards filled with way too many words for spectators to read as the marchers carried them past.

    I didn’t know what their day jobs were, so I attributed their inappropriate choice of medium to the complex delusions of paranoiacs. Maybe the explanation is simpler: many engineers and architects are nerds with little audience sense.

    • I used to have an Art Director who suffered from the same lack of visual understanding. He’d often be responsible for highway billboards that resembled an essay. He never learned his lesson regardless of how many times I pointed it out. I wasn’t worthy of the input as a simple Graphic Artist. He’s now unemployed. I’m no longer a Graphic Artist. The world is a better place.

  7. Beelzebud says:

    We may not agree on your economical “theories”, but I’m very eager to hear this show. Ventura really needs to be taken down a few notches. Mr. Appeal to Authority uses his military service, and his term as governor as a shield when anyone questions the nonsense he’s been spewing lately.

    I used to have a small amount of respect for this joker, too, but that was way before he revealed himself to be an Alex Jones nutball.

    • Beelzebud says:

      …And I forgot to ask… Is there an archive of this show online, that we can listen to?

      • Max says:

        Here, if you feel like hitting your head against a wall:

        The whole show is basically Shermer desperately trying to make his general points while Ventura beats him over the head with inane questions like, “Why was no one fired?”

      • Beelzebud says:

        LOL I can only imagine. I heard a radio interview with him about a year ago, and that’s basically what he did. Talked louder than the other person, and when backed in to a corner he trotted out the “I was a Navy Seal” line.

  8. Steve Florman says:

    Jesse “The Mouth” Ventura – we were calling him that by the end of his term as governor, here in Minnesota. He wasn’t a bad governor, at first, but then he got bored. He’s always been nuts.

    • tmac57 says:

      Yes,I was just listening to a different interview with him,and he was actually sounding fairly sane,and said some things that I thought were pretty reasonable and moderate,and then suddenly started talking about how fluoridation is put in the water to “dumb down and get everyone docile”. Yeah…sure Jesse.

  9. Ed Graham says:

    After seeing that picture of Jesse, I’m going to start referring to myself as, “Ed the Body.”

  10. BillG says:

    I wouldn’t doubt Ventura is merely pulling a scam to promote books and such for his bottom line, or perhaps the “body” took too much to the head.

    • tmac57 says:

      His “professional” wrestling background could account for either of those two choices…and possibly both!

      • Tmac, bingo! Bringing that up in a discussion forum with him would be a great way of simply bitch-slapping him, to use a phrase.

      • Christy Gould says:

        A wingnut he may be, but I take issue with the idea of holding his wrestling background against him. He was a fantastic entertainer and athlete whatever you think of his current misguided views, and there’s zero evidence that his former career has somehow affected his mental capacity. Such an attack has absolutely no place in a skeptical examination of his ideas.

      • tmac57 says:

        Christy,my point about Ventura’s wrestling background,was that professional wrestling is fake,and pure theater,and done to entertain.I could see him pushing false 911 claims in the same vein in order to gain an audience by putting on a show,and pandering to those who are true believers.It is also possible that he believes what he is pushing,and the years of punishment to his cranium due to the intense stunts in the ring has left him somewhat impaired (though I was only half serious about this point).I have no need to do a skeptical examination of his nonsense,since this has been done to death.I was more interested in his motivations.

      • Wrestlers aren’t athletes. They’re performing monkeys. After years competing in full contact fighting I can assure you, being hit a few times, you find it rather difficult to do backflips and entertain a crowd.

        His performance obviously didn’t end in the ring and now he’s performing for monkeys.

  11. Ken says:

    Your a fool if you believe the government…..

  12. Gr8GooglyMoogly says:

    I think Jesse ‘Spare Tire’ Ventura is more appropriate.

  13. Rob says:

    Max: Despite what Jesse likes to (frequently) claim, he actually never was a Navy SEAL

    • Max says:

      Frogman, SEAL, tomato, potato. As long as Ventura identifies with SEALs, conspiracy theories tarnishing their reputation would create cognitive dissonance for him.

  14. Timothy says:

    Michael, I can’t believe you! It’s not nice to pick on retards!

    P.S. Ventura was a frogman with Underwater Demolition Team 12, not a Navy SEAL.

    P.P.S. You should have nailed him on deliberately distorting scientific research on superthermite.

  15. johhny q public says:

    Go easy on The Body, Dr. Shermer. He did a lot of good for the people of Minnesota in his time as governor, and takes a lot more risks than most politicians are willing to for what he believes is right. He may not be part of the educated elite, but he at least raises his fists and challenges the halls of power. Even if some of his logic is not sound, and his arguments flawed, he is trying to do right by the common people by fighting a system so often manipulative of information. For a skeptic, Jesse Ventura should be a political hero; at least he is willing to put himself out there and ask important questions. Also, be careful not to commit the fallacy fallacy — just because someone’s argument is fallacious does not mean that the consequent is not true. Unlikely and improbable most definitely, but some arguments are worth having for their own sake; someone needs to be hyper inquisitive lest we skeptics grow lazy.

  16. Progress says:

    “What happened to the American Airlines plane?” Jesse’s answer: “I don’t know.” Sorry Jesse, not good enough.”

    You can’t be serious. Why must he know what happened to the plane? If a missile hit the pentagon, one would naturally not know what happened to the plane since it presumably, in that case, never appeared anywhere near the “crash site”.

    “It’s not enough to poke holes at the government explanation for 9/11 (a form of negative evidence); you must also present positive evidence for your theory.”

    Show me a picture of the plane hitting the pentagon? Oh, you can’t. Well then, I guess the government’s “version” must be true. Why don’t they have to prove anything?

    The fact that Ventura doesn’t know what happened the plane or the people that supposedly died, doesn’t mean, by itself, that a missile couldn’t have hit the pentagon.

    The “evidence” would of course be that when you look at pictures of the pentagon “attack”, it doesn’t look like a plane crashed there. And if one were to go along with the conspiracy theory, it wouldn’t be hard to imagine that the wrinkled sheets of metal and jet engine parts were planted.

    “Jesse wants to know why Osama bin Laden has not been indicted for murder by the United States government.”

    So, was he indicted for 9/11 or not? Why don’t you answer this? Supposedly, they just killed him for planning 9/11. You don’t kill people without strong evidence.

    Why did it take a FOIA request to have the pentagon footage released? Footage that, if I remember correctly, showed no plane.

    Maybe there was the excuse of “national security reasons”? Just like with Wikileaks? Wikileaks has caused no “damage” other than informing the public of what is really going on.

    What you have is a government that has now been proven to make up lies to protect its interests and the interests of corporations.

    Ultimately, the “evidence” may be circumstantial and indirect, but they all point in the same direction.

    • Max says:

      The Pentagon was hit by a light-pole-seeking missile, which zig-zagged to topple a bunch of light poles along the way.

      Clearly, the WTC demolition wasn’t sufficient to rally support for war. The plan simply wouldn’t be complete without one missile hitting the Pentagon, and another missile blowing a hole in the ground in the middle of nowhere.

  17. Graham says:

    Ventura really needs to stop calling himself a Navy SEAL. He wasn’t one. He was a member of the UDT (the Underwater Demolition Team) which was a separate unit from the SEALs. Ventura served with them from 1969 to 1975. He left the Navy in 1975. It wasn’t until 1983 that the UDT merged with the SEALs, becoming one solid unit (hehe). Vnetura had been OUT OF THE NAVY for 8 years before his former team became known as SEALs.

  18. Bill says:

    So there’s gotta be one skeptic in the crowd. This is the first I’ve ever heard anyone say the explosives would have to have been placed precisely where the planes entered the buildings? The mere mention of it is absurd… So how do you explain building 7 falling at free fall speed at 5:21pm that day? Sure it had a few fires burning and was hit with debris but so were a bunch of other surrounding buildings that had much worse damage. Only buildings owned by Larry Silverstein fell. It’s very plausible there was a stand down order by our Government because it only takes approximately five minutes to scramble a fighter jet and none were airborne till 9:35am, long after they knew full well we were under attack. The comment that “Bush is too stupid” to have been involved in 9/11 is correct but Chaney and Rumsfeld on the other hand? Recently in February of this year in an interview with Mancow (morning talk show host) Donald Rumsfeld was asked how building 7 was able to fall so fast being described as I stated above and his reply was “I never heard of building 7 falling”…Ha,ha,haaa!!! You mean to tell me that the Secretary Of Defense wasn’t aware of a 47 story tower crashing to the ground that day??? What kind of idiots does he take us for? And for the “debris” you point out in your picture, the guy standing next to it with the camera could have walked over and picked that up and walked away with it. My point being, where’s the rest of the plane??? The wings, the fuselage, the gigantic engines??? The 767 that they claim hit the Pentagon would have been, depending on design, between 159 and 201′ long and a wing span of 156 to 170′ and a dry weight of anywhere from 176,000 to 220,000lbs, huge! All we see are little pieces and one little motor, you mean to tell me that thing disintegrated but they were able to pull flimsy human bodies out and identify them? Logic was defied on many occasions that day but believe what you wanna believe. Terrorstorm and 9/11: Mysteries Demolitions are far better examples to cite for a conspiracy than Loose Change….

    • asylum31 says:

      Let’s see how quickly I can run through all of this.

      1. The collapses of Towers 1 and 2 initiated at the impact sites, so they had to be (if you think explosives brought them down).

      2. It didn’t collapse at a free fall speed.

      3. The Deutsche Bank Building and WTC 7 suffered similar structural damage, but how they reacted can’t be compared due to their different designs and the lack of fire at the Bank.

      4. Two F-15 pilots began suiting up at 8:34 A.M. They were ordered to scramble at 8:46 A.M. (just before American Flight 11 hit the North Tower). They took off at 8:52 A.M.

      5. There was plenty of debris at the Pentagon. This video shows it (second half).

      6. American 77 was a Boeing 757, not a 767. It’s dimensions were 155′ long with a wingspan of 124′ and weighed somewhere between 127,000 and 255,000 lbs.

      Logic wasn’t defied on 9/11, but it might seem that way when your case is based on ignoring and fabricating evidence.

  19. Infowa77ior says:

    Notice how the controlled puppet named Micheal offers no refute of his words. It’s because he can’t. Puppets aren’t taught to refute. They’re taught to simply refute the same crap over and over again. The CIA must be very proud of you, Micheal.

  20. Ugh…Jesse Ventura. He should stick to a sport that spews intestinal bad acting in tight lycra vom. Way more credibility than being a posterboy for “9/11 Toofers” and insipid tinfoil hat wearing monkeys.

  21. Steve says:

    Wait a sec! Wrestling is fake?

  22. Nandes says:

    The audio clip has been uploaded here –

  23. Leslie Davis says:

    Jesse Ventura

    truTV – Conspiracy Theories
    Starring America’s biggest liar and conspirator
    Jesse “James Janos” Ventura
    (even his name is fake)
    ”Always Cheat – The Philosophy of Jesse Ventura”
    by Leslie Davis, Author and Activist
    Call or write for a complimentary book – 612/529-5253

    Most of the truTV conspiracy information is nothing new.
    We reported the World Trade Center Building 7 demolition
    for the insurance money on our TV show more than a year ago.
    Call for our free WTC 7 video – 612/529-5253
    Ventura intros his truTV show by lying about being a Navy SEAL.
    He wasn’t a SEAL and the photo of him on truTV is from the movie Predator.

    Facts you should know about Jesse Ventura

    – Ventura lied about being a Navy SEAL on active duty. He joined the SEAL Reserves after active duty. (Page 102).
    – He lied about being in Vietnam. He told Dennis Anderson of the Minneapolis Star Tribune that “you haven’t hunted until you’ve hunted man”. Ventura was never in combat and he never hunted man.
    – Bribed a candidate on July 17, 1998 so he could run unopposed in the Reform Party and keep his radio show. Call for free video of the actual bribe.
    – Bribed Ramsey County Attorney Susan Gaertner to fix the 1998 bribe by giving a job to her boyfriend, John Wodele, as his Communications Director.
    – Told single moms that they were on their own if they tried to get help.
    – Told University of Minnesota students to “win if you can, lose if you must, but Always Cheat”.
    – Insulted people who were religious or mentally ill.
    – Killed caged birds at a game farm with Maria Shriver and Charlie Weaver.
    – Endorsed “torture” of people at Highway 55 when 600-law enforcement (the largest police action in Minnesota history) arrested peaceful protesters trying to prevent demolition of homes for a road. Many protesters were handcuffed behind their backs and pepper sprayed in their eyes. (Page 4).
    – Ventura took government money to go to school in Hennepin County and later told students that if they were smart enough to go to college they should be able to figure out how to pay for it.


  24. Krantzstone says:

    Sorry, would you mind just fixing that spelling error of Dick Cheney’s name? I keep seeing ‘Chaney’ and actor Lon Chaney’s face (one of a thousand, anyway) pops up in my head.

    Otherwise, carry on.

  25. Dr, Michael Chiccone says:

    The real truth is that Jesse Ventura was NEVER a Nave Seal. He was a Navy Diver if I recall correctly. Mr. Shermer should have pointed that out.

  26. Come on, Jesse. Everyone knows REAL truthers believe the “passengers” on the Pentagon plane were actually CIA operatives who were relocated with and given new identities after the fake crash.

    (Yes, that is something someone actually told me.)

  27. ThomaT says:

    Peer reviewed scientific study by The University Of Copenhagen identified nano-thermite in the WTC dust. Nano thermite cuts throuh steel. There is a photo of one of the massive steel girders tha remained showing a 45deg. neat cut.

    Steel microspheres needing 3000 deg C were also found in the WTC dust. Jet fuel burns way below that.

    Over ten million tons of steel, concrete, ceramic bathroom fittings, computors and humans vapourised into such fine dust, that most of it blew away, leaving hardly any debris on the ground.

    That is impossible, from even a controlled demolition! Mini nukeswere most probably used,as the one used in Bali to vapourise 200 Aussies, leaving a massive crator, so that Oz could go to war in Iraq. Dr Ward has confirmed this with data showing tritium levels 54X above normal background. These levels rise after nukes.

    Not a single hijacker was on any pax.list, CNN. So no boarding passes, no assigned seats, incorrect headcounts, yet all those experienced Chief pursers and Captains accepted that and took off??.

    BBC reported many alleged hijackers still alive after the facts.

    From top of descent, flying at VNE, full speed, even for a 20,000 hour training Captain, it is IMPOSSIBLE to arrive at the correct height, from which to strike the said buildings. UNLESS the pilots have continuous radar talkdown for distance versus height, and the radar operators have the required glide-path info in front of them for these circumstances.

    It is also impossible to guess the exact angle of bank to apply at VNE, so as to roll out after the steep full speed descent, and then to be lined up to strike the said buildings.

    The Penta pilot, who could not even solo a Cessna with 600 logbook hours, did this, even making a 270 degree VNE turn. He then struck the Penta at GROUND LEVEL. His underslung engines did NOT touch the ground, no marks on the lawn, even as he went through a ten foot hole, where he dissappeared his Boeing.

    This ace even managed to get to ground level, at max speed, VNE, in the massive Boeing, whereby the laws of aerodynamics will not allow this due to the cushion of air UNDER the plane, ie the ground effect.

    May I suggest the sceptics here are merely paidfor Govt. msinformers, as are most sceptic in alternative medicine, (they paid for by Big Pharma).

  28. Publius Cato says:

    “Shockingly true, yes, but just because politicians and their appointed cabinet assigns and their staffers sometimes lie (mostly in the interest of national security but occasionally to cover up their own incompetence and moral misdeeds) . . .”

    Oh come on now, who is being naive. With all the stuff leaked on wikileaks about US foreign affairs, the report in 2004 about warrant-less wiretaps and just about every other blatant act of government hypocrisy you still claim government uses secrets laws to protect national security and not their own embarrassments. puh-lease

  29. Mike Eyerly says:

    Jessie the Blowhard was NOT a SEAL and did NOT see combat as he leads people to believe!

  30. Mark Talmont says:

    It is unfortunate that the real issues relevant to 9/11 have been so muddled by an over-emphasis on the claims of various fringe elements. (Although Mr. Ventura’s program remains the one and only place where you can see a demonstration that thermite painted on the surface of a steel beam melts it like butter in a few seconds).

    The facts relevant to the case are covered in the writings of Peter Lance (Triple Cross, Cover-Up) which have been systematically ignored by the Ministry of Truth that controls the cable news channels. (The Ministry saw to it that “Family of Secrets” about the Bushes was kept off MSNBC). Ever heard of “Ali Mohammed”? The Bin Laden operative that penetrated the center of U.S. counter-terror operations? Neither did the 9/11 commission!

    There is a disturbing atmosphere of smug, self-reinforcing, self-righteousness that pervades the “skeptic” world; it’s a suffocating “all-or-nothing” style of thought that parallels the absolutism of the religious fundamentalists that “skeptics” so gleefully disparage. I find that many “skeptics” live in a cocoon that is anything but skeptical; particularly with respect to 20th Century history. A few instances:

    Venona (Joe McCarthy was actually right).
    Antony Sutton (The John Birch Society was right all along)
    the nuclear downwinders (mass murder by “scientists”)
    Bobby Baker (the Democrats’ Watergate, suppressed by the historians, as with Venona and the Moynihan Commission that validated that evidence.)

    and then there is the JFK case, which Mr. Shermer pronounces settled. Never mind E.Howard Hunt’s deathbed confession (on tape) and Barr McClellan’s book “Money Blood and Power” which details not just LBJ’s involvement but the other homicides he was found guilty of in a Texas court (posthumously).

    BTW: how many of you were “skeptical” of “free trade” and “deregulation”, NAFTA/WTO for China? Our sovereignty is gone, exactly as the NWO-worrying “nuts” and “extremists” predicted. And this is only the beginning (wait until they confiscate the gold–again.)

    I’m off to plant some more non-GMO seeds; enjoy your expensive pharmaceuticals with no country of origin labels. Just watch out for the poisoned pig guts from China (Heparin).

  31. Ymus ANon says:

    –The Kyle thing’s certainly looking set up.


    “KOREA and NOT the long gone World Wars,
    is rapidly emerging as the KEY conflict of
    the 20th century viz a viz the 21st.”

    Wishing Ventura, when he’s detailing Vietnam,
    would ALWAYS be careful to point out Vietnam
    was, and IS NOT KOREA.

    The KOREAN WAR opened with the greatest
    rocket and mortar attack in world history
    followed by full scale invasion.

    North Korea remains a puppet of and buffer for
    RED China and VAST Globalist EUGENICS ops.

    MILLIONS have been put to death —since the
    war, and even now.

    Just a little REALITY CHECK as Hollywood
    and media BALK the awesomely relevant
    60th Anniversary of the

    —————-KOREAN WAR——————-


  32. Beatrice says:

    I love Jesse Ventura . . . cool guy!