Comments on: Wind Turbines and Birds: The Cuisinarts of the Skies? http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Attached research http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-66391 Attached research Sun, 23 Oct 2011 03:47:06 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-66391 Read the attached article for the detailed breakdown. Dunning's posted that comment many times. If you have a proble with his numbers, you can read the article and see the detailed breakdown. Try reading the comments before posting, and also, I don't see how your example works: An anectdote about predictions against the actualy doesn't prove anything probative: read the attached research: That's the source. Read the attached article for the detailed breakdown. Dunning’s posted that comment many times. If you have a proble with his numbers, you can read the article and see the detailed breakdown. Try reading the comments before posting, and also, I don’t see how your example works: An anectdote about predictions against the actualy doesn’t prove anything probative: read the attached research: That’s the source.

]]> By: rob http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-29343 rob Mon, 18 Oct 2010 01:25:00 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-29343 this article is fairly old at this stage and i'm sure no one will notice but my change of colour idea may yet work, not for the reason i was thinking however and also purple not red. http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9067000/9067721.stm this article is fairly old at this stage and i’m sure no one will notice but my change of colour idea may yet work, not for the reason i was thinking however and also purple not red.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_9067000/9067721.stm

]]> By: Joergon http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-17324 Joergon Wed, 27 Jan 2010 00:27:56 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-17324 I think the comparisons to the existing energy providers would be the best one to look at. If the cancer society is correct about the 100,000 human deaths due to current systems, and if that carries over to birds, a comparison to turbines, once adjusted for how many wind turbines we would need to replace the old systems and so on, would be most useful. It seems like it's easy for those who use this argument to dismiss the stats on predation, glass buildings etc as irrelevant to this topic, but if the facts turn out to show that turbines would cause less bird deaths than say coal power stations for the same amount of power created, that seems to be the strongest argument. I would love to see an analysis of this, I am going to try and find some hard facts. Thank you for the interesting article. I think the comparisons to the existing energy providers would be the best one to look at. If the cancer society is correct about the 100,000 human deaths due to current systems, and if that carries over to birds, a comparison to turbines, once adjusted for how many wind turbines we would need to replace the old systems and so on, would be most useful.

It seems like it’s easy for those who use this argument to dismiss the stats on predation, glass buildings etc as irrelevant to this topic, but if the facts turn out to show that turbines would cause less bird deaths than say coal power stations for the same amount of power created, that seems to be the strongest argument.

I would love to see an analysis of this, I am going to try and find some hard facts.

Thank you for the interesting article.

]]> By: prophit1970 http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-17044 prophit1970 Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:30:35 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-17044 LKL It would not require too great a commitment to begin the investigation. Full-body bat necropsies should be conducted, searching for precisely this form of damage. Comprehensive histologic findings could be analyzed by barotrauma physicians and researchers. Lung isn't the only mammalian tissue to rip from the Bends. That there should be other damage to bats seems clear, so I would expect that an investigation could firmly and swiftly determine if this is happening. Investigations of the early history of the fungal epidemic would be a separate matter. I think that's the portion of the inquiry to which you alluded, where a much greater amount of research would need to be committed. LKL

It would not require too great a commitment to begin the investigation. Full-body bat necropsies should be conducted, searching for precisely this form of damage. Comprehensive histologic findings could be analyzed by barotrauma physicians and researchers.

Lung isn’t the only mammalian tissue to rip from the Bends. That there should be other damage to bats seems clear, so I would expect that an investigation could firmly and swiftly determine if this is happening.

Investigations of the early history of the fungal epidemic would be a separate matter. I think that’s the portion of the inquiry to which you alluded, where a much greater amount of research would need to be committed.

]]> By: Kate Huttemann http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-17043 Kate Huttemann Thu, 14 Jan 2010 14:20:23 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-17043 Your average of 2 birds killed is misleading, because while statistics allow us to generalize to predict the big picture, they don't speak to individual differences. As appears true for other aspects of wind projects (economic viability, environmental damage, local opposition), siting is everything. Consider an environmental impact study done at a wind farm in the Columbia River Gorge, in which bird death was predicted to be about 33 per year but which actually destroyed over 300 birds in a year. Your average of 2 birds killed is misleading, because while statistics allow us to generalize to predict the big picture, they don’t speak to individual differences. As appears true for other aspects of wind projects (economic viability, environmental damage, local opposition), siting is everything. Consider an environmental impact study done at a wind farm in the Columbia River Gorge, in which bird death was predicted to be about 33 per year but which actually destroyed over 300 birds in a year.

]]> By: LKL http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-17020 LKL Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:50:19 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-17020 Yes, good point. Yes, good point.

]]> By: LKL http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-17018 LKL Wed, 13 Jan 2010 19:47:20 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-17018 It's an interesting hypothesis, but would need huge amounts of research to back it up. Yes, the appearance of whitenose has somewhat coincided with the appearance of wind towers; however, it also coincided with billions of other novel events. For example, excavation and the breaking up of earth in general tends to release fungal spores, as in human valley fever; what farming or excavations or have been done near the roosts or along the migration routes of the bats? It’s an interesting hypothesis, but would need huge amounts of research to back it up. Yes, the appearance of whitenose has somewhat coincided with the appearance of wind towers; however, it also coincided with billions of other novel events.

For example, excavation and the breaking up of earth in general tends to release fungal spores, as in human valley fever; what farming or excavations or have been done near the roosts or along the migration routes of the bats?

]]> By: Stephanie Barr http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-16992 Stephanie Barr Wed, 13 Jan 2010 14:52:39 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-16992 Excellent point. Excellent point.

]]> By: Jeshua http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-16986 Jeshua Wed, 13 Jan 2010 13:45:33 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-16986 Surprising that no one brought up what has to be THE major factor in this story, the "elephant in the room." The US has one of the highest per capita consumption of energy in the world, so the real answer is a combination approach with the emphasis on energy efficiency and reduced consumption supplemented by efforts to find cleaner energy sources. Using less energy would also mean saving more birds! Surprising that no one brought up what has to be THE major factor in this story, the “elephant in the room.” The US has one of the highest per capita consumption of energy in the world, so the real answer is a combination approach with the emphasis on energy efficiency and reduced consumption supplemented by efforts to find cleaner energy sources. Using less energy would also mean saving more birds!

]]> By: Stephanie Barr http://www.skepticblog.org/2010/01/07/wind-turbines-and-birds-the-cuisinarts-of-the-skies/#comment-16945 Stephanie Barr Tue, 12 Jan 2010 14:07:10 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=5954#comment-16945 I found it interesting that the raptor deaths were almost entirely in California. That really argues location (though it should also be noted that California had about 9:1 as many wind turbines as the rest of the country. That say something. I found it telling that early wind turbine designs, according to the text, seemed to be more deadly, with the implications that advances in design might also reduce bird loss. Sounds like interesting paths to pursue. I found it interesting that the raptor deaths were almost entirely in California. That really argues location (though it should also be noted that California had about 9:1 as many wind turbines as the rest of the country. That say something.

I found it telling that early wind turbine designs, according to the text, seemed to be more deadly, with the implications that advances in design might also reduce bird loss.

Sounds like interesting paths to pursue.

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