<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Climategate Fiasco</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/</link>
	<description>The official blog of the Skeptologists</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:38:44 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-23538</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jul 2010 02:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-23538</guid>
		<description>Ah, but there are limits to what researchers are supposed to provide for FOI requests.  Not every last bit of their work is free for anyone to get a copy -- parts, like computer code for example, are generally seen as being the proprietary material of the author.  It&#039;s just like how a scientist isn&#039;t expected to automatically give a patent or copyright up to the public domain even if his work was publically funded.

From an interview given by one of the Climategate scientists I heard he and his compatriots have decided to provide computer code regardless, but they are doing so &lt;i&gt;voluntarily&lt;/i&gt;, not because they have to.  The fact that they did not do so in the past is therefore &lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;not&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/b&gt; evidence of a problem -- except, of course, with the Deniers asking for more than they deserved.

(And, for the record, that same interview related how the Denier requests also often asked for material that was either already freely available from different sources or for material that the scientist in question did not have the legal right to give out -- but, no matter, any rejection for any reason is enough for Deniers to cry foul)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, but there are limits to what researchers are supposed to provide for FOI requests.  Not every last bit of their work is free for anyone to get a copy &#8212; parts, like computer code for example, are generally seen as being the proprietary material of the author.  It&#8217;s just like how a scientist isn&#8217;t expected to automatically give a patent or copyright up to the public domain even if his work was publically funded.</p>
<p>From an interview given by one of the Climategate scientists I heard he and his compatriots have decided to provide computer code regardless, but they are doing so <i>voluntarily</i>, not because they have to.  The fact that they did not do so in the past is therefore <i><b>not</b></i> evidence of a problem &#8212; except, of course, with the Deniers asking for more than they deserved.</p>
<p>(And, for the record, that same interview related how the Denier requests also often asked for material that was either already freely available from different sources or for material that the scientist in question did not have the legal right to give out &#8212; but, no matter, any rejection for any reason is enough for Deniers to cry foul)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Linda Rosa</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-22084</link>
		<dc:creator>Linda Rosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 19:46:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-22084</guid>
		<description>Re: Kevin Trenberth...

I am writing the below opinions on behalf of Advocates for Children in Therapy, a not-for-profit organization that opposes unvalidated and abusive psychotherapy.

There is something that concerns us greatly about Kevin Trenberth, a major figure in global climate research.  We aren&#039;t convinced he is really a scientist.    

Dr. Trenberth and his wife Gail have long been known as leading family in promoting a highly abusive and pseudoscientific psychotherapy used on adopted children. Gail Trenberth is co-founder of the national organization:  Attachment Disorder Network (currently called Attachment &amp; Trauma Network).  This organization promotes the most brutal forms of Attachment Therapy.  Some refer to proponents as a &quot;therapy cult.&quot;   

 For over 40 years, &quot;Attachment Therapy&quot; has been linked to criminal cases involving children being starved, caged, isolated, and even killed.  It is not hyperbole to say that Attachment Therapy  (aka Rage Reduction, Holding Therapy, Compression Therapy, Rebirthing, Nancy Thomas parenting, etc.) is torture. (We are applying the definition of torture used in the UN Convention on Torture.) 

We recently approached Dr. Trenberth, thinking that recent developments might cause him to reconsider Attachment Therapy.  We  pointed out that in the last 40 years there has been no valid research on Attachment Therapy  and that in 2006 the American Psychological Association and APSAC condemned the practice as abusive and &quot;inappropriate for all children.&quot;  Alas, Dr. Trenberth continued to staunchly defend Attachment Therapy as &quot;effective.&quot;  He wrote:

&quot;Well a key part of science is empirical experimentation and some of this works, whether you like it or not.&quot; 

Oh dear.  Wrong answer, Dr. Trenberth.

Dr. Trenberth apparently considers subjecting children willy-nilly to Attachment Therapists is &quot;empirical experimentation.&quot;  He certainly would be hard pressed to name any published studies on Attachment Therapy.  His other comments revealed to me that he accepts Attachment Therapy&#039;s unique beliefs about child development, as well.  

Here is a clip of the type of &quot;therapy&quot; that Dr. Trenberth thinks is &quot;effective&quot; in creating a loving attachment between parent and child, or as he puts it, &quot;breaking through defenses&quot; to attachment:

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dl8ArqRt7wBE

We believe we are on firm ground when we assert that Dr. Trenberth is not in the habit of thinking like a scientist, and especially not when it comes to the welfare of defenseless children. 

It is our opinion that Dr. Trenberth&#039;s continued defense of quackery puts all of his scientific endeavors into question.  

We believe that Dr. Trenberth&#039;s continued promotion of Attachment Therapy is unfortunate behavior for a scientist and because of this, his studies merit especially close scrutiny.  Global warming is a serious issue and we need reliable data to act responsibly.  It&#039;s not something about which we would automatically be comfortable trusting to Dr. Trenberth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Kevin Trenberth&#8230;</p>
<p>I am writing the below opinions on behalf of Advocates for Children in Therapy, a not-for-profit organization that opposes unvalidated and abusive psychotherapy.</p>
<p>There is something that concerns us greatly about Kevin Trenberth, a major figure in global climate research.  We aren&#8217;t convinced he is really a scientist.    </p>
<p>Dr. Trenberth and his wife Gail have long been known as leading family in promoting a highly abusive and pseudoscientific psychotherapy used on adopted children. Gail Trenberth is co-founder of the national organization:  Attachment Disorder Network (currently called Attachment &amp; Trauma Network).  This organization promotes the most brutal forms of Attachment Therapy.  Some refer to proponents as a &#8220;therapy cult.&#8221;   </p>
<p> For over 40 years, &#8220;Attachment Therapy&#8221; has been linked to criminal cases involving children being starved, caged, isolated, and even killed.  It is not hyperbole to say that Attachment Therapy  (aka Rage Reduction, Holding Therapy, Compression Therapy, Rebirthing, Nancy Thomas parenting, etc.) is torture. (We are applying the definition of torture used in the UN Convention on Torture.) </p>
<p>We recently approached Dr. Trenberth, thinking that recent developments might cause him to reconsider Attachment Therapy.  We  pointed out that in the last 40 years there has been no valid research on Attachment Therapy  and that in 2006 the American Psychological Association and APSAC condemned the practice as abusive and &#8220;inappropriate for all children.&#8221;  Alas, Dr. Trenberth continued to staunchly defend Attachment Therapy as &#8220;effective.&#8221;  He wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Well a key part of science is empirical experimentation and some of this works, whether you like it or not.&#8221; </p>
<p>Oh dear.  Wrong answer, Dr. Trenberth.</p>
<p>Dr. Trenberth apparently considers subjecting children willy-nilly to Attachment Therapists is &#8220;empirical experimentation.&#8221;  He certainly would be hard pressed to name any published studies on Attachment Therapy.  His other comments revealed to me that he accepts Attachment Therapy&#8217;s unique beliefs about child development, as well.  </p>
<p>Here is a clip of the type of &#8220;therapy&#8221; that Dr. Trenberth thinks is &#8220;effective&#8221; in creating a loving attachment between parent and child, or as he puts it, &#8220;breaking through defenses&#8221; to attachment:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dl8ArqRt7wBE" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3Dl8ArqRt7wBE</a></p>
<p>We believe we are on firm ground when we assert that Dr. Trenberth is not in the habit of thinking like a scientist, and especially not when it comes to the welfare of defenseless children. </p>
<p>It is our opinion that Dr. Trenberth&#8217;s continued defense of quackery puts all of his scientific endeavors into question.  </p>
<p>We believe that Dr. Trenberth&#8217;s continued promotion of Attachment Therapy is unfortunate behavior for a scientist and because of this, his studies merit especially close scrutiny.  Global warming is a serious issue and we need reliable data to act responsibly.  It&#8217;s not something about which we would automatically be comfortable trusting to Dr. Trenberth.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GoneWithTheWind</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-19709</link>
		<dc:creator>GoneWithTheWind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Mar 2010 17:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-19709</guid>
		<description>I think most people are confusing to different issues:  Global warming vs AGW.  This is the 33rd global warming since the last ice age.  It is much milder then the 32nd was in the 11-12th century.  It will be followed by the 33rd global cooling and I sincerely hope the next global cooling is not as harmful as the last one was.  We can&#039;t cause them and we can&#039;t prevent them.  Many of those on the AGW side prefer to argue that the deniers don&#039;t believe in global warming because it is a much easier thing to prove them wrong.  Most &quot;deniers&quot; get caught up in believing that when they say &quot;global warming is not real&quot; that we understand they are using a shorthand statement when they really mean AGW is not true.  The confusion works to keep both sides from discussing what is real.  Global warming is real!  AGW is a theory which is only still popular because it can be used to extract trillions of dollars with the help of complicit politicians.  For the less then honest scientist it is a win-win.  They benefit from keeping the question alive and any &quot;proof&quot; either way translates into more grants and more study.  The only thing that will put the AGW controversy to bed will be the coming global cooling.  When?  Who knows, it could be next year, next decade, next century.  But in the meantime your taxes will increase and the loot will be transferred to the AGW pimps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think most people are confusing to different issues:  Global warming vs AGW.  This is the 33rd global warming since the last ice age.  It is much milder then the 32nd was in the 11-12th century.  It will be followed by the 33rd global cooling and I sincerely hope the next global cooling is not as harmful as the last one was.  We can&#8217;t cause them and we can&#8217;t prevent them.  Many of those on the AGW side prefer to argue that the deniers don&#8217;t believe in global warming because it is a much easier thing to prove them wrong.  Most &#8220;deniers&#8221; get caught up in believing that when they say &#8220;global warming is not real&#8221; that we understand they are using a shorthand statement when they really mean AGW is not true.  The confusion works to keep both sides from discussing what is real.  Global warming is real!  AGW is a theory which is only still popular because it can be used to extract trillions of dollars with the help of complicit politicians.  For the less then honest scientist it is a win-win.  They benefit from keeping the question alive and any &#8220;proof&#8221; either way translates into more grants and more study.  The only thing that will put the AGW controversy to bed will be the coming global cooling.  When?  Who knows, it could be next year, next decade, next century.  But in the meantime your taxes will increase and the loot will be transferred to the AGW pimps.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Janus Daniels</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-19206</link>
		<dc:creator>Janus Daniels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-19206</guid>
		<description>STEVEN NOVELLA, Dec 07 2009
&quot;... For global warming dissidents I recommend that you put your rhetoric in check. The witch-hunt frenzy so far in evidence cannot possibly serve you well...&quot;
Your naïveté is charming.
Kudos to &quot;Truth-is-Fact&quot; for citing conservapedia.com(!) as a credible source.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>STEVEN NOVELLA, Dec 07 2009<br />
&#8220;&#8230; For global warming dissidents I recommend that you put your rhetoric in check. The witch-hunt frenzy so far in evidence cannot possibly serve you well&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Your naïveté is charming.<br />
Kudos to &#8220;Truth-is-Fact&#8221; for citing conservapedia.com(!) as a credible source.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jere Krischel</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-17095</link>
		<dc:creator>Jere Krischel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 09:07:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-17095</guid>
		<description>Venus has a higher atmospheric pressure than the earth.  PV=nRT.  In the venusian atmosphere where it is equivalent to 1 earth atmosphere, the temperature is not all that different than earth&#039;s, given the closer proximity to the sun.

Venus == runaway global warming is a very poor argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Venus has a higher atmospheric pressure than the earth.  PV=nRT.  In the venusian atmosphere where it is equivalent to 1 earth atmosphere, the temperature is not all that different than earth&#8217;s, given the closer proximity to the sun.</p>
<p>Venus == runaway global warming is a very poor argument.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Truth-is-Fact</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-15855</link>
		<dc:creator>Truth-is-Fact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 10:23:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-15855</guid>
		<description>ClimateGate certainly revealed a &quot;fiasco,&quot; the biggest scientific scandal of our generation. http://www.conservapedia.com/Climategate 

The truth shall set you free!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ClimateGate certainly revealed a &#8220;fiasco,&#8221; the biggest scientific scandal of our generation. <a href="http://www.conservapedia.com/Climategate" rel="nofollow">http://www.conservapedia.com/Climategate</a> </p>
<p>The truth shall set you free!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-15823</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 14:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-15823</guid>
		<description>Looks like the AGW deniers were already charging the CRU with destroying data in October before the emails were leaked.
Phil Jones and LLNL&#039;s Ben Santer already responded to the charges.
http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/phil-jones-and-ben-santer-comment-on-cei/

Ben Santer:
&lt;blockquote&gt;As I see it, there are two key issues here.

First, the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) and Pat Michaels are arguing that Phil Jones and colleagues at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia (CRU) willfully, intentionally, and suspiciously “destroyed” some of the raw surface temperature data used in the construction of the gridded surface temperature datasets.

Second, the CEI and Pat Michaels contend that the CRU surface temperature datasets provided the sole basis for IPCC “discernible human influence” conclusions.

Both of these arguments are incorrect...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Phil Jones:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Almost all the data we have in the CRU archive is exactly the same as in the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) archive used by the NOAA National Climatic Data Center [see here and here].

The original raw data are not “lost.”  I could reconstruct what we had from U.S. Department of Energy reports we published in the mid-1980s. I would start with the GHCN data. I know that the effort would be a complete waste of time, though. I may get around to it some time. The documentation of what we’ve done is all in the literature.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the AGW deniers were already charging the CRU with destroying data in October before the emails were leaked.<br />
Phil Jones and LLNL&#8217;s Ben Santer already responded to the charges.<br />
<a href="http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/phil-jones-and-ben-santer-comment-on-cei/" rel="nofollow">http://www.climatesciencewatch.org/index.php/csw/details/phil-jones-and-ben-santer-comment-on-cei/</a></p>
<p>Ben Santer:</p>
<blockquote><p>As I see it, there are two key issues here.</p>
<p>First, the Competitive Enterprise Institute (CEI) and Pat Michaels are arguing that Phil Jones and colleagues at the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia (CRU) willfully, intentionally, and suspiciously “destroyed” some of the raw surface temperature data used in the construction of the gridded surface temperature datasets.</p>
<p>Second, the CEI and Pat Michaels contend that the CRU surface temperature datasets provided the sole basis for IPCC “discernible human influence” conclusions.</p>
<p>Both of these arguments are incorrect&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>Phil Jones:</p>
<blockquote><p>Almost all the data we have in the CRU archive is exactly the same as in the Global Historical Climatology Network (GHCN) archive used by the NOAA National Climatic Data Center [see here and here].</p>
<p>The original raw data are not “lost.”  I could reconstruct what we had from U.S. Department of Energy reports we published in the mid-1980s. I would start with the GHCN data. I know that the effort would be a complete waste of time, though. I may get around to it some time. The documentation of what we’ve done is all in the literature.</p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tmac57</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-15782</link>
		<dc:creator>tmac57</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:17:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-15782</guid>
		<description>I think that it is fair to say that both sides of this issue have politicized it. Read some of Tim&#039;s comments. I agree with you, that the science should drive the debate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that it is fair to say that both sides of this issue have politicized it. Read some of Tim&#8217;s comments. I agree with you, that the science should drive the debate.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-15778</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 19:03:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-15778</guid>
		<description>The deniers only consider their own organizations, described above, to be independent, and the rest to be in on the conspiracy. Let&#039;s just have ExxonMobil review the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The deniers only consider their own organizations, described above, to be independent, and the rest to be in on the conspiracy. Let&#8217;s just have ExxonMobil review the case.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Lippard</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/12/07/the-climategate-fiasco/#comment-15777</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Lippard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:54:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=5427#comment-15777</guid>
		<description>New Scientist on &quot;Deniergate&quot;--some of the many scandals of climate change skeptics:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18279-deniergate-turning-the-tables-on-climate-sceptics.html

On #3, the stated outcome must be sarcastic; compare:

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/journal_of_american_physicians.php

On #4, they could have pointed to this detailed critique of Monckton&#039;s paper:

http://duoquartuncia.blogspot.com/2008/07/aps-and-global-warming-what-were-they.html

Devil&#039;s Advocate: Who&#039;s arguing for a liberal political litmus test for skepticism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>New Scientist on &#8220;Deniergate&#8221;&#8211;some of the many scandals of climate change skeptics:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18279-deniergate-turning-the-tables-on-climate-sceptics.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18279-deniergate-turning-the-tables-on-climate-sceptics.html</a></p>
<p>On #3, the stated outcome must be sarcastic; compare:</p>
<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/journal_of_american_physicians.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/03/journal_of_american_physicians.php</a></p>
<p>On #4, they could have pointed to this detailed critique of Monckton&#8217;s paper:</p>
<p><a href="http://duoquartuncia.blogspot.com/2008/07/aps-and-global-warming-what-were-they.html" rel="nofollow">http://duoquartuncia.blogspot.com/2008/07/aps-and-global-warming-what-were-they.html</a></p>
<p>Devil&#8217;s Advocate: Who&#8217;s arguing for a liberal political litmus test for skepticism?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

