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	<title>Comments on: A Skeptical Triumph Over Medical Flim-Flam</title>
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	<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/</link>
	<description>The official blog of the Skeptologists</description>
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		<title>By: James Thomas</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-15024</link>
		<dc:creator>James Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:32:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-15024</guid>
		<description>Go Tim.  Couldn&#039;t agree more.  The skeptical movement needs to build a bigger tent or consign itself to patting itself on the back and not worrying too much about changing the way woo-buyers look at the world.  Call someone a dumb-sh*t enough times and they&#039;ll stop listening.  Keeping the movement as a carefully circumscribed priesthood is stupid and self-defeating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go Tim.  Couldn&#8217;t agree more.  The skeptical movement needs to build a bigger tent or consign itself to patting itself on the back and not worrying too much about changing the way woo-buyers look at the world.  Call someone a dumb-sh*t enough times and they&#8217;ll stop listening.  Keeping the movement as a carefully circumscribed priesthood is stupid and self-defeating.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14978</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14978</guid>
		<description>Reputation matters. One reason the study got so much attention in the first place is that its authors seemed reputable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reputation matters. One reason the study got so much attention in the first place is that its authors seemed reputable.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14976</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14976</guid>
		<description>Actually, the gist of this article is absolutely appalling.  I am also skeptical of the research, but to attack it based upon the credentials of those who did the research is nothing short of an ad hominem.  According to the logic given in this article, no research could EVER be accepted by any convict.  That would include Copernicus, by the way.

If an experiment cannot be duplicated, then it must be discounted.  This is the basis on which to legitimately question the findings.  Not by questioning the reputation of those who did the study.  Is this science or a witch trial?

Shame on Mr. Shermer for this bit of sophistry - he should know better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the gist of this article is absolutely appalling.  I am also skeptical of the research, but to attack it based upon the credentials of those who did the research is nothing short of an ad hominem.  According to the logic given in this article, no research could EVER be accepted by any convict.  That would include Copernicus, by the way.</p>
<p>If an experiment cannot be duplicated, then it must be discounted.  This is the basis on which to legitimately question the findings.  Not by questioning the reputation of those who did the study.  Is this science or a witch trial?</p>
<p>Shame on Mr. Shermer for this bit of sophistry &#8211; he should know better.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14626</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 00:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14626</guid>
		<description>This has been a grand lesson in why it is important to treat one&#039;s journalism with no less care than one&#039;s research.  We cannot know the true motivations of the people involved, but we can at least be more careful in explaining the intricate details of the events.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been a grand lesson in why it is important to treat one&#8217;s journalism with no less care than one&#8217;s research.  We cannot know the true motivations of the people involved, but we can at least be more careful in explaining the intricate details of the events.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14619</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14619</guid>
		<description>Not at all, the word large is very important.  Believe you me I have my criticisms of American government and society, but my resentment as expressed in this reply is an expression of my contempt of outright condemnations of the country as a whole; that is, anti-Americanism.  There is no specific criticism of America to make here.  The flim-flammer was exposed, the judge ruled against the flim-flammer, and the judge ruled in favor of the freedom of speech.  Here we have a case of American freedom being preserved and skepticism making inroads AND STILL the original poster has to insult the country.  Call me old fashion but I just don&#039;t like to see Americans running our country down.  There is nothing fundamentally (again, another carefully chosen word) wrong with the country.  We traverse the country and world by sitting in a chair in the sky, moving at hundreds of miles per hour, and we complain if we lose the ability to access a live webcam in China over the internet while flying over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.  We have microwaves, televisions, automobiles, heat, air conditioning, and 24 hour always stocked supermarkets.  We have telephones, cameras, video cameras, computers, internet, GPS, music devices, video games, video conferencing...all in one device widely available to the public.  You can make movies about the assassination of the president or have children singing about the greatness of the president.  You can believe in any denomination of any religion believing in God, you can believe in gods, or no god at all (and not just profess these beliefs in public, but have bestselling books and websites).  This country is a great one with freedom and its natural corollary prosperity, even now with unemployment hitting 10.2%.  

Why did I say large country?  Because we have lost many of our freedoms.  Monaco has no income tax, Hong Kong and Estonia have flat taxes with little regulation, and in the United States we seem to increasingly move away from equal taxation, equal treatment under the law, and many of our freedoms seem to decay regardless of the administration (although there is a difference between the parties even if both have been guilty of moving away from the Constitution).  However these problems in our country have not yet compromised any fundamental principle in America.  You and I can still freely speak out, choose our profession, petition the courts during disputes, lobby our legislators, and keep the products of our labor (although this right is the closest to being threatened in a fundamental way).  There are a few countries with greater freedoms than ours, but there is no place I would rather live than the United States of America.  Monaco is freer economically, but it is a principality without real political freedom.  Hong Kong also has more economic freedom, but freedom of speech does not exist as it once did under the British and even then it was not complete.  America is the first republic which protected freedom as an absolute with her few original sins such as slavery being defined as evil precisely because they deviated from that principle of freedom.  When all is taken into account, social, sexual, political, and economic freedom, we are still the freest country in the world and being the freest large country in the world give our liberty a protection that Monaco, Hong Kong, and Estonia just don&#039;t have.  

So when people get down on America I defend her passionately and even fanatically.  I am an atheist who wishes the lifting of prohibition of drugs, prostitution, and gays in the military as well as the elimination of the income tax, regulations, state licensing (of marriage or doctors for that matter), welfare, and many other key elements of what our government has become, but when people start attacking the country I break out my American flag and start waving it.  This country is special and to criticize it part of it, but to run it down even when you agree with what it is doing (as was the case with this post) is something I react to because while I am always contrarian, I am always patriotic.  

P.S.  Kudden, I don&#039;t swear for the hell of it or condemn people just for disagreeing with me.  I don&#039;t say up yours to you, your post was spot on.  &quot;Large&quot; in that context was no trivial word.  The nuances and subtleties of argument are often the most important parts of those arguments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not at all, the word large is very important.  Believe you me I have my criticisms of American government and society, but my resentment as expressed in this reply is an expression of my contempt of outright condemnations of the country as a whole; that is, anti-Americanism.  There is no specific criticism of America to make here.  The flim-flammer was exposed, the judge ruled against the flim-flammer, and the judge ruled in favor of the freedom of speech.  Here we have a case of American freedom being preserved and skepticism making inroads AND STILL the original poster has to insult the country.  Call me old fashion but I just don&#8217;t like to see Americans running our country down.  There is nothing fundamentally (again, another carefully chosen word) wrong with the country.  We traverse the country and world by sitting in a chair in the sky, moving at hundreds of miles per hour, and we complain if we lose the ability to access a live webcam in China over the internet while flying over the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.  We have microwaves, televisions, automobiles, heat, air conditioning, and 24 hour always stocked supermarkets.  We have telephones, cameras, video cameras, computers, internet, GPS, music devices, video games, video conferencing&#8230;all in one device widely available to the public.  You can make movies about the assassination of the president or have children singing about the greatness of the president.  You can believe in any denomination of any religion believing in God, you can believe in gods, or no god at all (and not just profess these beliefs in public, but have bestselling books and websites).  This country is a great one with freedom and its natural corollary prosperity, even now with unemployment hitting 10.2%.  </p>
<p>Why did I say large country?  Because we have lost many of our freedoms.  Monaco has no income tax, Hong Kong and Estonia have flat taxes with little regulation, and in the United States we seem to increasingly move away from equal taxation, equal treatment under the law, and many of our freedoms seem to decay regardless of the administration (although there is a difference between the parties even if both have been guilty of moving away from the Constitution).  However these problems in our country have not yet compromised any fundamental principle in America.  You and I can still freely speak out, choose our profession, petition the courts during disputes, lobby our legislators, and keep the products of our labor (although this right is the closest to being threatened in a fundamental way).  There are a few countries with greater freedoms than ours, but there is no place I would rather live than the United States of America.  Monaco is freer economically, but it is a principality without real political freedom.  Hong Kong also has more economic freedom, but freedom of speech does not exist as it once did under the British and even then it was not complete.  America is the first republic which protected freedom as an absolute with her few original sins such as slavery being defined as evil precisely because they deviated from that principle of freedom.  When all is taken into account, social, sexual, political, and economic freedom, we are still the freest country in the world and being the freest large country in the world give our liberty a protection that Monaco, Hong Kong, and Estonia just don&#8217;t have.  </p>
<p>So when people get down on America I defend her passionately and even fanatically.  I am an atheist who wishes the lifting of prohibition of drugs, prostitution, and gays in the military as well as the elimination of the income tax, regulations, state licensing (of marriage or doctors for that matter), welfare, and many other key elements of what our government has become, but when people start attacking the country I break out my American flag and start waving it.  This country is special and to criticize it part of it, but to run it down even when you agree with what it is doing (as was the case with this post) is something I react to because while I am always contrarian, I am always patriotic.  </p>
<p>P.S.  Kudden, I don&#8217;t swear for the hell of it or condemn people just for disagreeing with me.  I don&#8217;t say up yours to you, your post was spot on.  &#8220;Large&#8221; in that context was no trivial word.  The nuances and subtleties of argument are often the most important parts of those arguments.</p>
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		<title>By: Shahar Lubin</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14617</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahar Lubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14617</guid>
		<description>Ok. How much should I trust the California Court of Appeals?

Then  again. He was sued for defamation, he defended himself against those accusations and he won the case. Is it still in any legal process?(this is not a rhetorical question, I want to know)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok. How much should I trust the California Court of Appeals?</p>
<p>Then  again. He was sued for defamation, he defended himself against those accusations and he won the case. Is it still in any legal process?(this is not a rhetorical question, I want to know)</p>
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		<title>By: Shahar Lubin</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14616</link>
		<dc:creator>Shahar Lubin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 12:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14616</guid>
		<description>And was found not guilty of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And was found not guilty of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14613</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14613</guid>
		<description>And the reason everyone assumed this is because Michael Shermer wrote, &quot;Angered by Dr. Flamm’s skeptical persistence, Cha eventually filed a defamation lawsuit against Flamm, especially after he published several articles questioning the validity of the original pregnancy study.&quot;

No, Dr. Cha was especially angered by an article charging him with plagiarism of an unrelated study.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And the reason everyone assumed this is because Michael Shermer wrote, &#8220;Angered by Dr. Flamm’s skeptical persistence, Cha eventually filed a defamation lawsuit against Flamm, especially after he published several articles questioning the validity of the original pregnancy study.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, Dr. Cha was especially angered by an article charging him with plagiarism of an unrelated study.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14612</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14612</guid>
		<description>From what I&#039;ve seen so far, I agree with their decision.
The offending statement would be misleading out of context, but its meaning was clear from the article.
So congratulations Dr. Flamm.

It seemed like everyone here assumed that Dr. Cha sued Dr. Flamm just for criticizing his study, but the reality wasn&#039;t so simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I&#8217;ve seen so far, I agree with their decision.<br />
The offending statement would be misleading out of context, but its meaning was clear from the article.<br />
So congratulations Dr. Flamm.</p>
<p>It seemed like everyone here assumed that Dr. Cha sued Dr. Flamm just for criticizing his study, but the reality wasn&#8217;t so simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/11/03/a-skeptical-triumph-over-medical-flim-flam/#comment-14611</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 06:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=4901#comment-14611</guid>
		<description>How much do you trust the California Court of Appeals?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How much do you trust the California Court of Appeals?</p>
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