Comments on: Capitalism—A Propaganda Story http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: BigAndy http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-63760 BigAndy Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:32:27 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-63760 Everyone quotes Darwin as saying "only the strongest will survive" to fight for their own ideal economic/political model, except what Darwin actually said was "it is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." In any system we have there will be certain kinds of people that will flourish and others who will fail (and possibly starve if that's what the system allows). There will also be people who work out how to use the system to their advantage like some (and I stress SOME) people who sit back and collect unemployment because it's easier than getting a job, yet under other systems they would starve. People will adapt to their situations, which is why under other systems the ultra-rich of today (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc) may not have been ultra-rich in money, but they would have probably found a way to be "rich" in whatever way different systems elevate certain members of society. To refer back to William's quote of “If I see you dying of thirst in the dessert”. This really is an oversimplification of the problem as I'm sure that 99.9% of people who came across this situation would give water. I think the situation is more like what if you came across a person who ran out of petrol in the middle of nowhere? Would you give the person petrol out of your own tank knowing that you might run out of petrol before you reach the next petrol station? If you had a spare canister of petrol and were confident you could get there you'd probably give it over, but without one and without knowing how far away the next petrol station is, aren't you potentially going to help the man get closer to civilisation only for you both to run out of petrol. Would you be so prepared to take that risk if your whole family were in the car with you? Everyone quotes Darwin as saying “only the strongest will survive” to fight for their own ideal economic/political model, except what Darwin actually said was “it is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”
In any system we have there will be certain kinds of people that will flourish and others who will fail (and possibly starve if that’s what the system allows). There will also be people who work out how to use the system to their advantage like some (and I stress SOME) people who sit back and collect unemployment because it’s easier than getting a job, yet under other systems they would starve.
People will adapt to their situations, which is why under other systems the ultra-rich of today (Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, etc) may not have been ultra-rich in money, but they would have probably found a way to be “rich” in whatever way different systems elevate certain members of society.

To refer back to William’s quote of “If I see you dying of thirst in the dessert”. This really is an oversimplification of the problem as I’m sure that 99.9% of people who came across this situation would give water.
I think the situation is more like what if you came across a person who ran out of petrol in the middle of nowhere? Would you give the person petrol out of your own tank knowing that you might run out of petrol before you reach the next petrol station? If you had a spare canister of petrol and were confident you could get there you’d probably give it over, but without one and without knowing how far away the next petrol station is, aren’t you potentially going to help the man get closer to civilisation only for you both to run out of petrol.
Would you be so prepared to take that risk if your whole family were in the car with you?

]]> By: BigSoph http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-54500 BigSoph Sat, 26 Mar 2011 03:09:33 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-54500 William said, way back in Aught Nine: "If I see you dying of thirst in the dessert" Well then, you should have poured yourself a glass of milk to go with all those dry, dry cookies William said, way back in Aught Nine: “If I see you dying of thirst in the dessert”

Well then, you should have poured yourself a glass of milk to go with all those dry, dry cookies

]]> By: ian http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-54375 ian Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:19:23 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-54375 We live in that kind of world, either in respect to government or in respect to the power of private capital, bloated from the stench of political affiliation. There is no way to avoid it. Frankly, I'd rather the less powerful force (private capital / business) be allowed to be corrupt without the freedom to form political affiliations than the alternative we're currently used to. Ever try to read the bills that congress passes? "And other reasons" is my favorite catch-all government legalese. They are surely the masters of fine-print. We live in that kind of world, either in respect to government or in respect to the power of private capital, bloated from the stench of political affiliation. There is no way to avoid it. Frankly, I’d rather the less powerful force (private capital / business) be allowed to be corrupt without the freedom to form political affiliations than the alternative we’re currently used to.

Ever try to read the bills that congress passes? “And other reasons” is my favorite catch-all government legalese. They are surely the masters of fine-print.

]]> By: ian http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-54374 ian Fri, 18 Mar 2011 13:05:37 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-54374 "Why do mortgage companies sign people who they know cannot afford it?" ACTUAL answer: because the fucking government tells them they have to. Those well-intended liberal policies broke the economy and screwed countless Americans and I'm sick and tired of liberals acting as if greed is the only motivating factor behind predatory practices in the housing market. It's either disingenuous or borderline ignorant, and I'm not sure it matters which. “Why do mortgage companies sign people who they know cannot afford it?” ACTUAL answer: because the fucking government tells them they have to. Those well-intended liberal policies broke the economy and screwed countless Americans and I’m sick and tired of liberals acting as if greed is the only motivating factor behind predatory practices in the housing market. It’s either disingenuous or borderline ignorant, and I’m not sure it matters which.

]]> By: sharpeink http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-50670 sharpeink Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:25:40 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-50670 Capitalism—A Propaganda Story by Michael Shermer, Oct 13 2009 Amazing of a years worth of reading! To point out every ones view is different. Nobody is in total agreement, some have watched the "Movie" others have not. We will always be in an economic time (good or Bad) and it all depends on your situation in life as to how you interpret what system/s work best. Your situation leads to your input on "the situation". Many situations have been discussed in this past blog over a year old! Outsiders and insiders have layed their thougts and beliefs here for others. Im not a Darwin fan, I believe the strong will survive, I believe each of us has the majority of control over ones self (dependent on where you live). I beleive the majority can rule/govern honestly (weapons not allowed). I believe in protecting what is right, weapons allowed. With that, violence may not solve all issues, but bare in mind. Anyone who can show through out time the rise of a country not nation, that has done so much through out the world, please show your credits! For we should be indet to you! Other wise I stand with the founders of the Constitution of The United States.(cooks or not). Our time that this country has became and will always stay GREAT through out the history of the world was and will be made of people from this world! No nation under god/allah/almighty or any other faction will change what we do. It is our's to get it right. Capitalism—A Propaganda Story
by Michael Shermer, Oct 13 2009
Amazing of a years worth of reading! To point out every ones view is different. Nobody is in total agreement, some have watched the “Movie” others have not. We will always be in an economic time (good or Bad) and it all depends on your situation in life as to how you interpret what system/s work best. Your situation leads to your input on “the situation”. Many situations have been discussed in this past blog over a year old! Outsiders and insiders have layed their thougts and beliefs here for others.
Im not a Darwin fan, I believe the strong will survive, I believe each of us has the majority of control over ones self (dependent on where you live). I beleive the majority can rule/govern honestly (weapons not allowed). I believe in protecting what is right, weapons allowed. With that, violence may not solve all issues, but bare in mind. Anyone who can show through out time the rise of a country not nation, that has done so much through out the world, please show your credits! For we should be indet to you! Other wise I stand with the founders of the Constitution of The United States.(cooks or not). Our time that this country has became and will always stay GREAT through out the history of the world was and will be made of people from this world! No nation under god/allah/almighty or any other faction will change what we do. It is our’s to get it right.

]]> By: Ben http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-30435 Ben Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:42:28 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-30435 You cannot have government give those things away. European governments are going bankrupt. There are no private goods (like healthcare) that government is better at distributing fairly than the FREE market. The trouble in America is that the healthcare market is not FREE. You cannot have government give those things away. European governments are going bankrupt. There are no private goods (like healthcare) that government is better at distributing fairly than the FREE market. The trouble in America is that the healthcare market is not FREE.

]]> By: Ben http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-30427 Ben Wed, 03 Nov 2010 19:21:17 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-30427 The great depression is irrelevant. Malfeasance and incompetence are to blame here. Those that have misbehaved, the lenders, borrowers, and legislators, need to be exposed and punnished. Some by the market, others by the law. Government should not bail out anybody. At least Moore has again exposed Roosevelt as the doofus that he was. The great depression is irrelevant. Malfeasance and incompetence are to blame here. Those that have misbehaved, the lenders, borrowers, and legislators, need to be exposed and punnished. Some by the market, others by the law. Government should not bail out anybody.

At least Moore has again exposed Roosevelt as the doofus that he was.

]]> By: Ben http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-30425 Ben Wed, 03 Nov 2010 18:51:29 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-30425 I am very much in agreement. The blame for the situation falls on the legislators who passed faulty regulations, the derelict agencies that did not properly enforce the regulations, and the business people and customers that violated the regulations. When someone lies about their income and takes out a loan that they can't pay back, they have commited a crime, they should lose their house and go to jail. When someone has the legal duty to ensure that the borrower has stable income sufficient to service the debt and they neglect to do that properly, they have commited a crime and should lose their business and go to jail. When legislators pass legislation that forces lenders to engage in increasingly risky business practices in order to stay competitve, their responsibility for the situation should be published and they should be removed from office by the electorate. When businesses engage in increasingly risky, legally dubious, and obviously unsustainable investment practices in order to stay competitive, any employees that have violated regulations should be fired and punished under the law. The damage to the company should be borne by the shareholders, and the business lost by that company will be taken up by companies that behave more responsibly. I am very much in agreement. The blame for the situation falls on the legislators who passed faulty regulations, the derelict agencies that did not properly enforce the regulations, and the business people and customers that violated the regulations.

When someone lies about their income and takes out a loan that they can’t pay back, they have commited a crime, they should lose their house and go to jail.

When someone has the legal duty to ensure that the borrower has stable income sufficient to service the debt and they neglect to do that properly, they have commited a crime and should lose their business and go to jail.

When legislators pass legislation that forces lenders to engage in increasingly risky business practices in order to stay competitve, their responsibility for the situation should be published and they should be removed from office by the electorate.

When businesses engage in increasingly risky, legally dubious, and obviously unsustainable investment practices in order to stay competitive, any employees that have violated regulations should be fired and punished under the law. The damage to the company should be borne by the shareholders, and the business lost by that company will be taken up by companies that behave more responsibly.

]]> By: Bob Mcbride http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-29440 Bob Mcbride Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:19:16 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-29440 It's one thing to read the fine print, which is tricky enough. Elizabeth Warren who is trained as a lawyer in the area of law covering credit card regulations said that even she can't understand the disclosure statements. But then credit card companies have been well known to change terms with no notice. So you think that medical payment being made on 5% intereset will cost x? Yes, until the compnay notices that you haven't paid enough in late fees or interest to suite them so they bump the rate on that already paid item to 12% and/or lower your limit to push you into over limit fees. It’s one thing to read the fine print, which is tricky enough. Elizabeth Warren who is trained as a lawyer in the area of law covering credit card regulations said that even she can’t understand the disclosure statements. But then credit card companies have been well known to change terms with no notice. So you think that medical payment being made on 5% intereset will cost x? Yes, until the compnay notices that you haven’t paid enough in late fees or interest to suite them so they bump the rate on that already paid item to 12% and/or lower your limit to push you into over limit fees.

]]> By: Cody http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/10/13/capitalism-a-propaganda-story/#comment-23399 Cody Wed, 14 Jul 2010 08:42:16 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=4708#comment-23399 ” If you want to live in a democratic and fair society it’s a necessary reality. ” Your logic here is beyond outlandish and naive, Alan. If we want to live in a “fair” and “democratic” society, we need to forcibly take from the succesful? ” If you want to live in a democratic and fair society it’s a necessary reality. ”

Your logic here is beyond outlandish and naive, Alan.

If we want to live in a “fair” and “democratic” society, we need to forcibly take from the succesful?

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