Comments on: Boy Scouts: You’ve Been Cast Out http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Brad http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-23277 Brad Mon, 12 Jul 2010 03:20:20 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-23277 I know this has been dead for some time, but was dumbfounded by the glaring one sidedness and ignorance in this. As being a non-christian Scouter, I will elaborate: Mistake 1: BSA takes NO public monies. This is why they have the right to discriminate. This is an important part of the freedom's we all take for granted. Mistake 2: While God is mentioned in the oath, there is also an Outlander's Oath, written by BP himself for those who could not swear an oath to any god. Mistake 3: If your not a Christian you're out. That is simply not true. The Buddhist's have been a welcomed part of BSA since the 1930's, What BSA does expect is a sense of spirituality. Aetheism porports no sense of spirtuality. Reverence is an important part of the Scout Law. While I may not agree with all their policies, I would defend to my death, their right to them up until they take public (government) monies. This is the same reason why private schools can insist all students pray each day. If you don't like it, you can choose not to be a part of it. And as for Religious bigotry, what does that have to do with Scouting? The point of every different religion is to say we are better than you. Scouting never had anything to do with that, nor does it single any religion. It just ask you have a religion. If your unsure, look up the defintion of religion: religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. I think the last part explains it all. That is what BSA ask for it's youth and leaders. I know this has been dead for some time, but was dumbfounded by the glaring one sidedness and ignorance in this. As being a non-christian Scouter, I will elaborate:

Mistake 1: BSA takes NO public monies. This is why they have the right to discriminate. This is an important part of the freedom’s we all take for granted.

Mistake 2: While God is mentioned in the oath, there is also an Outlander’s Oath, written by BP himself for those who could not swear an oath to any god.

Mistake 3: If your not a Christian you’re out. That is simply not true. The Buddhist’s have been a welcomed part of BSA since the 1930′s, What BSA does expect is a sense of spirituality. Aetheism porports no sense of spirtuality. Reverence is an important part of the Scout Law.

While I may not agree with all their policies, I would defend to my death, their right to them up until they take public (government) monies. This is the same reason why private schools can insist all students pray each day. If you don’t like it, you can choose not to be a part of it.

And as for Religious bigotry, what does that have to do with Scouting? The point of every different religion is to say we are better than you. Scouting never had anything to do with that, nor does it single any religion. It just ask you have a religion. If your unsure, look up the defintion of religion:

religion: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

I think the last part explains it all. That is what BSA ask for it’s youth and leaders.

]]> By: Mike http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-20429 Mike Mon, 19 Apr 2010 16:01:41 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-20429 Then again Shahar, they did build the building you speak of, and have done far more service for the City of Philadelphia, than Philadelphia has done for the Boy Scouts. Then again Shahar, they did build the building you speak of, and have done far more service for the City of Philadelphia, than Philadelphia has done for the Boy Scouts.

]]> By: Jamie http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-13186 Jamie Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:05:27 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-13186 Boys have fundraisers and riase their own money. Do you even know what you are speaking of. Boys have fundraisers and riase their own money. Do you even know what you are speaking of.

]]> By: Jamie http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-13185 Jamie Wed, 23 Sep 2009 15:01:47 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-13185 Did you never read the Scout oath in all this time volunteering? I, promise to do my best To do my duty to GOD and my country To help other people And to obey the Law of the Pack. Seems there was something about God in there. Did you never read the Scout oath in all this time volunteering?
I, promise to do my best
To do my duty to GOD and my country
To help other people
And to obey the Law of the Pack.

Seems there was something about God in there.

]]> By: Andrea http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-10537 Andrea Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:56:40 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-10537 My son is a cub scout. We were helping with the parking for an event at the fairgrounds--cost $2/car to park. The scouts got to keep $0.10 per car. One driver said he wouldn't support the scouts because they don't allow gay men to volunteer. I let him through and paid for the parking out of my own pocket. I support our local pack and den (volunteer time + financial support) because what we are doing at a local level works. We have atheist parents in our pack, and some of them are leaders (great leaders!). Our charter org is OK with it and so are we. We haven't gone as far as some packs have [see Cub Scout Pack 88, Rhode Island, who wrote a letter to national]. I do not, however, support Friends of Scouting, because our family doesn't agree with what is going on with scouting at the national level and a good deal of FoS funds goes up the chain. If the idea is to make better citizens, why would you NOT want everyone to be eligible? So, yes. Some of us involved in scouting think the national council is wrong. My son is a cub scout. We were helping with the parking for an event at the fairgrounds–cost $2/car to park. The scouts got to keep $0.10 per car. One driver said he wouldn’t support the scouts because they don’t allow gay men to volunteer. I let him through and paid for the parking out of my own pocket.

I support our local pack and den (volunteer time + financial support) because what we are doing at a local level works. We have atheist parents in our pack, and some of them are leaders (great leaders!). Our charter org is OK with it and so are we. We haven’t gone as far as some packs have [see Cub Scout Pack 88, Rhode Island, who wrote a letter to national].

I do not, however, support Friends of Scouting, because our family doesn’t agree with what is going on with scouting at the national level and a good deal of FoS funds goes up the chain. If the idea is to make better citizens, why would you NOT want everyone to be eligible?

So, yes. Some of us involved in scouting think the national council is wrong.

]]> By: Frank Rapp, Scoutmaster http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-10453 Frank Rapp, Scoutmaster Wed, 29 Jul 2009 20:38:31 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-10453 Honestly, Neil, are you surprised? The national office will uphold the decisions of the local council every time. They always have and always will. Just so you’re not surprised again. Mr. Dunning, come on, do you actually think scouts are raking in federal money? If so, why are so many councils laying off personnel to the point of almost closing? Do you think that the Boy Scouts are the only Constitutionally Chartered Organization that is “enjoying the freedoms reserved for private institutions”? Do you really want to take the freedom of an organization that has been instrumental in keeping at bay or eliminating those that want to squash freedom even when it was unpopular to do so? Yes, they were backing the soldiers of Vietnam, while the free thinking generation was calling them “Baby Killers”. You all are bashing your biggest supporters of the freedoms you enjoy. You might think this is hypocritical, but wouldn’t it be more hypocritical to dismiss values and beliefs that you have personally held close for so long, because the vocal minority wants them to? The last time I checked we are a country where the majority rules. If that ever changes, be prepared to loose all of your freedoms not just your website. When we say “Duty to My Country”, we are not picking and choosing which freedoms are right and wrong. We teach the youth to respect individual freedoms, so why do you want to infringe upon theirs? So what if every four years the country says “Thank you for your countless hours of service to our community and our country” by letting them rent a portion of a military base that is not costing the American tax payer any more money than it did the day before. To the Eagle Scouts that received their Eagle Rank with out accepting the Scout Oath and Law and lied about it, you have tarnished and devalued what so many before you have worked so hard to achieve. You should never consider yourself or tell anyone you are an Eagle Scout. You should not put it on an application or resume, so you can get that little bit of an edge over your peers. You are no different than the kid that joins the Army to get the discounts and military rates, but runs from battle to leave his comrades in arms to fight for him. The funny thing is, almost everyone in this discussion is or has been a scout. Which means everyone has had an opportunity to become a better person, to make decisions for themselves and to determine right from wrong. Whether we agree or not is irrelevant. By the way, why do kids that are not in scouts think that scouting is gay, when we appear to be the only organization that does not allow gay membership? I wish the homosexual community start a campaign to educate them. I know if I was so against an organization I wouldn’t want people associating it with me. Honestly, Neil, are you surprised? The national office will uphold the decisions of the local council every time. They always have and always will. Just so you’re not surprised again. Mr. Dunning, come on, do you actually think scouts are raking in federal money? If so, why are so many councils laying off personnel to the point of almost closing? Do you think that the Boy Scouts are the only Constitutionally Chartered Organization that is “enjoying the freedoms reserved for private institutions”? Do you really want to take the freedom of an organization that has been instrumental in keeping at bay or eliminating those that want to squash freedom even when it was unpopular to do so? Yes, they were backing the soldiers of Vietnam, while the free thinking generation was calling them “Baby Killers”. You all are bashing your biggest supporters of the freedoms you enjoy. You might think this is hypocritical, but wouldn’t it be more hypocritical to dismiss values and beliefs that you have personally held close for so long, because the vocal minority wants them to? The last time I checked we are a country where the majority rules. If that ever changes, be prepared to loose all of your freedoms not just your website. When we say “Duty to My Country”, we are not picking and choosing which freedoms are right and wrong. We teach the youth to respect individual freedoms, so why do you want to infringe upon theirs? So what if every four years the country says “Thank you for your countless hours of service to our community and our country” by letting them rent a portion of a military base that is not costing the American tax payer any more money than it did the day before.
To the Eagle Scouts that received their Eagle Rank with out accepting the Scout Oath and Law and lied about it, you have tarnished and devalued what so many before you have worked so hard to achieve. You should never consider yourself or tell anyone you are an Eagle Scout. You should not put it on an application or resume, so you can get that little bit of an edge over your peers. You are no different than the kid that joins the Army to get the discounts and military rates, but runs from battle to leave his comrades in arms to fight for him.
The funny thing is, almost everyone in this discussion is or has been a scout. Which means everyone has had an opportunity to become a better person, to make decisions for themselves and to determine right from wrong. Whether we agree or not is irrelevant.

By the way, why do kids that are not in scouts think that scouting is gay, when we appear to be the only organization that does not allow gay membership? I wish the homosexual community start a campaign to educate them. I know if I was so against an organization I wouldn’t want people associating it with me.

]]> By: Wendy http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-9933 Wendy Fri, 17 Jul 2009 22:48:48 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-9933 I was a Girl Scout leader for a few years, and my training was very explicit that GSA doesn't exclude anyone over religion or sexual orientation. They kind of made a big deal about it, which I thought was pretty cool. I was a Girl Scout leader for a few years, and my training was very explicit that GSA doesn’t exclude anyone over religion or sexual orientation. They kind of made a big deal about it, which I thought was pretty cool.

]]> By: Coaltrain http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-9790 Coaltrain Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:21:42 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-9790 Simply put, we don't as far as I know, we raise are OWN money. Simply put, we don’t as far as I know, we raise are OWN money.

]]> By: Donna Gore http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-9788 Donna Gore Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:08:28 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-9788 IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. It's fine if they want to discriminate/restrict membership, as long as they do NOT accept taxpayer dollars. If they take federal monies - which come from ALL TAXPAYERS - and then use those resources to discriminate against some of those very same taxpayers.......that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. They need to STOP using the taxpayers money !!!! IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY. It’s fine if they want to discriminate/restrict membership, as long as they do NOT accept taxpayer dollars. If they take federal monies – which come from ALL TAXPAYERS – and then use those resources to discriminate against some of those very same taxpayers…….that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG. They need to STOP using the taxpayers money !!!!

]]> By: Coaltrain http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/07/02/boy-scouts-youve-been-cast-out/#comment-9743 Coaltrain Mon, 13 Jul 2009 04:00:24 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=3172#comment-9743 What you people are doing here is no better than what you claim the BSA is doing. You openly bash religon, and an organisation that is not given money by the US Government and supports it self in order to teach boys to become capable men. What you people are doing here is no better than what you claim the BSA is doing. You openly bash religon, and an organisation that is not given money by the US Government and supports it self in order to teach boys to become capable men.

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