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	<title>Comments on: An Amazing Disillusion</title>
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	<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/</link>
	<description>The official blog of the Skeptologists</description>
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		<title>By: Rousterfar</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-9131</link>
		<dc:creator>Rousterfar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Jun 2009 15:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-9131</guid>
		<description>I thought the same thing when I watched this video.  They didn&#039;t debunk anything, all they did was show a way it could have been faked.

Do I think it&#039;s really a ghost?  No, but I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when debunking woo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the same thing when I watched this video.  They didn&#8217;t debunk anything, all they did was show a way it could have been faked.</p>
<p>Do I think it&#8217;s really a ghost?  No, but I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when debunking woo.</p>
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		<title>By: Devil's Advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-9089</link>
		<dc:creator>Devil's Advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-9089</guid>
		<description>Me too, a real coffee-spitter, lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too, a real coffee-spitter, lol.</p>
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		<title>By: sonic</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-9071</link>
		<dc:creator>sonic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:11:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-9071</guid>
		<description>I agree with SciPreFix here.  What is plausible will depend on prejudice.  &quot;My prejudice is better than yours&quot; is not a sound argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with SciPreFix here.  What is plausible will depend on prejudice.  &#8220;My prejudice is better than yours&#8221; is not a sound argument.</p>
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		<title>By: J. D. Mack</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-9069</link>
		<dc:creator>J. D. Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 02:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-9069</guid>
		<description>The Darwin joke made me laugh out loud!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Darwin joke made me laugh out loud!</p>
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		<title>By: Devil's Advocate</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-9000</link>
		<dc:creator>Devil's Advocate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-9000</guid>
		<description>I called the JREF to order one of those communicators, but they were a bit rude to me. 

Many of these recurring arguments about whether a given claim has been truly debunked would go away if the arguers would first agree on their definition of &#039;debunk&#039;. Some feel it means &#039;disprove&#039; while others feel it means &#039;provide a more plausible alternate explanation that explains all observations&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I called the JREF to order one of those communicators, but they were a bit rude to me. </p>
<p>Many of these recurring arguments about whether a given claim has been truly debunked would go away if the arguers would first agree on their definition of &#8216;debunk&#8217;. Some feel it means &#8216;disprove&#8217; while others feel it means &#8216;provide a more plausible alternate explanation that explains all observations&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: MadScientist</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-8987</link>
		<dc:creator>MadScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:21:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-8987</guid>
		<description>Well, by your criteria Randi has never debunked Uri Geller&#039;s 5 party tricks.  Where are the videos of Geller flexing his spoons? We do have a video of Geller putting on a thumb tip in plain view (how amateur) and Randi distracting people with a thumb tip when in fact his magnet was taped to his hand - so is Randi&#039;s explanation wrong because there is no proof that Geller used an inoccuous thumb tip and really had a magnet taped to the bottom of his hand? The whole point is that these are simple tricks and as Randi said, there are many ways to obtain the desired effect - he points out one simple and obvious method, but that doesn&#039;t have to be the one actually used.  Unless you raid the house and expose the setup or get the video producers to tell you how they did it, you may never know the precise details of how a particular trick was done.

Harry Houdini had a marvelous invention - the &quot;medium&#039;s box&quot;. Claimed to be rigged so that a specific medium could be tested in the box and her powers foiled, the box is also claimed to be designed so that Houdini himself can be locked in the box and yet create the effects which the medium claimed to be capable of.  The box was designed to prevent the medium from employing any of the tricks which Houdini was aware of (and which were relevant to the claims).  If the box were designed to prevent only one specific trick, Houdini would have looked really bad if he had guessed the wrong trick and the medium were able to do her thing.  Unless people stand up to be tested or volunteer to have appropriately skilled people scrutinize their claims, there is often no telling what trick was used to produce an effect.  Even when it comes to testing it is not necessary to know exactly what trick will be employed (as long as that particular trick had been accounted for) - it is sufficient to demonstrate that the claimed effect cannot be produced.  But in this case neither CD nor Randi are testing a claim, they are merely showing one simple option for how the trick can be done, and in doing so they have already debunked the claim by providing a natural explanation for the observation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, by your criteria Randi has never debunked Uri Geller&#8217;s 5 party tricks.  Where are the videos of Geller flexing his spoons? We do have a video of Geller putting on a thumb tip in plain view (how amateur) and Randi distracting people with a thumb tip when in fact his magnet was taped to his hand &#8211; so is Randi&#8217;s explanation wrong because there is no proof that Geller used an inoccuous thumb tip and really had a magnet taped to the bottom of his hand? The whole point is that these are simple tricks and as Randi said, there are many ways to obtain the desired effect &#8211; he points out one simple and obvious method, but that doesn&#8217;t have to be the one actually used.  Unless you raid the house and expose the setup or get the video producers to tell you how they did it, you may never know the precise details of how a particular trick was done.</p>
<p>Harry Houdini had a marvelous invention &#8211; the &#8220;medium&#8217;s box&#8221;. Claimed to be rigged so that a specific medium could be tested in the box and her powers foiled, the box is also claimed to be designed so that Houdini himself can be locked in the box and yet create the effects which the medium claimed to be capable of.  The box was designed to prevent the medium from employing any of the tricks which Houdini was aware of (and which were relevant to the claims).  If the box were designed to prevent only one specific trick, Houdini would have looked really bad if he had guessed the wrong trick and the medium were able to do her thing.  Unless people stand up to be tested or volunteer to have appropriately skilled people scrutinize their claims, there is often no telling what trick was used to produce an effect.  Even when it comes to testing it is not necessary to know exactly what trick will be employed (as long as that particular trick had been accounted for) &#8211; it is sufficient to demonstrate that the claimed effect cannot be produced.  But in this case neither CD nor Randi are testing a claim, they are merely showing one simple option for how the trick can be done, and in doing so they have already debunked the claim by providing a natural explanation for the observation.</p>
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		<title>By: MadScientist</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-8986</link>
		<dc:creator>MadScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 06:04:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-8986</guid>
		<description>*sniff* Work + no money = no TAM.

Where can I get one of those skeptic communicator devices?  :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*sniff* Work + no money = no TAM.</p>
<p>Where can I get one of those skeptic communicator devices?  :P</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-8977</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-8977</guid>
		<description>Exactly. I have to agree with SicPreFix, this isn&#039;t a debate of reasonable people.  Basically the CD explanation involves the entire family in a hoax, so certainly they are among those for whom simple reason and probability will have no sway..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly. I have to agree with SicPreFix, this isn&#8217;t a debate of reasonable people.  Basically the CD explanation involves the entire family in a hoax, so certainly they are among those for whom simple reason and probability will have no sway..</p>
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		<title>By: Brian M</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-8976</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-8976</guid>
		<description>I agree that we should always be looking for a full set of evidence. However, you are a bit crazy to think that this &quot;debunk&quot; was insufficient. 

They provide a video with an explanation. They are trying to get views, and make people get scared. Simply stating an alternate hypothesis demonstrates to the viewers that, in fact, &quot;ghost&quot; isn&#039;t the only explanation. People are smart, and will weigh the odds on their own. In the absence of another explanation, they will blindly accept the &quot;woo&quot; hypothesis. If we provide a more reasonable one, then they may think of even a better one on their own.

And besides, what kind of video maker who is trying to scare the audience, would let a group of skeptics come in and tear through his house? The video is clearly an attempt to entertain, and the debunking of it just adds some extra entertainment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that we should always be looking for a full set of evidence. However, you are a bit crazy to think that this &#8220;debunk&#8221; was insufficient. </p>
<p>They provide a video with an explanation. They are trying to get views, and make people get scared. Simply stating an alternate hypothesis demonstrates to the viewers that, in fact, &#8220;ghost&#8221; isn&#8217;t the only explanation. People are smart, and will weigh the odds on their own. In the absence of another explanation, they will blindly accept the &#8220;woo&#8221; hypothesis. If we provide a more reasonable one, then they may think of even a better one on their own.</p>
<p>And besides, what kind of video maker who is trying to scare the audience, would let a group of skeptics come in and tear through his house? The video is clearly an attempt to entertain, and the debunking of it just adds some extra entertainment.</p>
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		<title>By: SicPreFix</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/24/an-amazing-disillusion/#comment-8972</link>
		<dc:creator>SicPreFix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=3142#comment-8972</guid>
		<description>&quot;Why?&quot;

Why not?

No, seriously though, the reason I make that statement is because in the war of reality versus woo, skeptics, debunkers, and dewooers have already got such a hard job challenging and countering the endless bath of woo that washes over the world, I think the extra several steps of reality cleanse are extremely important.

Woo entertains and appeals to so many people to such a deep degree, that I feel if skeptics, deubunkers, et al do not go those extra several steps they end up preaching only to the already converted. And what is the point of that?

Yes, I know, many wooists are not going to be convinced by any reality. But fences sitters cover a wide range of being accessible to reality, and they should get the most and the best of reality as often as is possible.

&quot;... any reasonable person would have to conclude that the plausible hypothesis is more likely to be true.&quot;

And just how many wooists are reasonable people?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why?&#8221;</p>
<p>Why not?</p>
<p>No, seriously though, the reason I make that statement is because in the war of reality versus woo, skeptics, debunkers, and dewooers have already got such a hard job challenging and countering the endless bath of woo that washes over the world, I think the extra several steps of reality cleanse are extremely important.</p>
<p>Woo entertains and appeals to so many people to such a deep degree, that I feel if skeptics, deubunkers, et al do not go those extra several steps they end up preaching only to the already converted. And what is the point of that?</p>
<p>Yes, I know, many wooists are not going to be convinced by any reality. But fences sitters cover a wide range of being accessible to reality, and they should get the most and the best of reality as often as is possible.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230; any reasonable person would have to conclude that the plausible hypothesis is more likely to be true.&#8221;</p>
<p>And just how many wooists are reasonable people?</p>
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