Comments on: Young Scientists Condemn CAM in the Third World http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joseph Putnoki http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-13949 Joseph Putnoki Wed, 14 Oct 2009 05:40:24 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-13949 Homoeopathy and acupuncture is put in the cross hairs. Before you pull the trigger and imagine you have killed a myth, pause for a moment, wipe off the froth around your mouth and listen for a change. Not being able to understand a phenomena is not the same as saying it can not exist. "The absence of evidence is no evidence of absence" may be a caution even if a clichee. Attempt to observe first hand cures of animals by acupuncture and homoeopathy. Maintain an open mind still vigilant. Of course a lot depends on the quality of the practitioner. Both camps have their charlatans though. And both camps maintain hostility and arrogance as to monopoly to truth. Exceptions exist when allopathic and integrative approaches complement each other for better outcomes. While it is an inconvenient fact possibly, let me poise the question theoretically this way: if you witnessed an animal cured by either method above what would you say? Many valid research can not be reproduced sometimes. One of my lecturer said at the time: we must go to the source to observe how it is being done, in case we may have missed something that could be crucial. Also you may want to look deeper into peer reviewed research findings and how practice guide lines produced. The whole process. Be well! joseph. Homoeopathy and acupuncture is put in the cross hairs. Before you pull the trigger and imagine you have killed a myth, pause for a moment, wipe off the froth around your mouth and listen for a change.

Not being able to understand a phenomena is not the same as saying it can not exist. “The absence of evidence is no evidence of absence” may be a caution even if a clichee.

Attempt to observe first hand cures of animals by acupuncture and homoeopathy. Maintain an open mind still vigilant. Of course a lot depends on the quality of the practitioner. Both camps have their charlatans though. And both camps maintain hostility and arrogance as to monopoly to truth.

Exceptions exist when allopathic and integrative approaches complement each other for better outcomes.

While it is an inconvenient fact possibly, let me poise the question theoretically this way: if you witnessed an animal cured by either method above what would you say?

Many valid research can not be reproduced sometimes. One of my lecturer said at the time: we must go to the source to observe how it is being done, in case we may have missed something that could be crucial.

Also you may want to look deeper into peer reviewed research findings and how practice guide lines produced. The whole process.

Be well!

joseph.

]]> By: Nadir http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8631 Nadir Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:09:58 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8631 Hi, This is Nadir from Pakistan, A Student of Chartered Accountancy Final and completed BBA (Hons), currently completing my article ship in Deloitte Touché Tohmatsu Pakistan. I am running a community based NGO here in district Mirpurkhas of province Sindh in Pakistan. After witnessing two deaths of mother and upcoming child in a delivery case, due to not having only Rs: 500 I-e USD 6 in , (How can a family earning USD 10-15 per month can afford a taxi charging USD 8-10 for a single drive to nearest woman hospital). we have decided to open a small hospital for woman and children, for which I am seeking funding. If your organization is interested in helping masses, this will help your organization to enhance its international operations and goodwill as well as funding from different donors. For any further information please contact on following given particulars Regards, Nadir E-mail- lagharinadir@gmail.com Cell: +92-345-6007620 Hi,

This is Nadir from Pakistan, A Student of Chartered Accountancy Final and completed BBA (Hons), currently completing my article ship in Deloitte Touché Tohmatsu Pakistan.

I am running a community based NGO here in district Mirpurkhas of province Sindh in Pakistan. After witnessing two deaths of mother and upcoming child in a delivery case, due to not having only Rs: 500 I-e USD 6 in , (How can a family earning USD 10-15 per month can afford a taxi charging USD 8-10 for a single drive to nearest woman hospital). we have decided to open a small hospital for woman and children, for which I am seeking funding.

If your organization is interested in helping masses, this will help your organization to enhance its international operations and goodwill as well as funding from different donors.

For any further information please contact on following given particulars

Regards,

Nadir
E-mail- lagharinadir@gmail.com
Cell: +92-345-6007620

]]> By: DC http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8457 DC Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:59:34 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8457 >The WHO, unfortunately, is an imperfect political organization and as such is vulnerable to sectarian interests Where can I find our more about the politics behind the WHO and their sectarian interests? I am interested to know which members of the WHO have associations with what pharmaceutical companies - Does anyone know where I could find this out? >The WHO, unfortunately, is an imperfect political organization and as such is vulnerable to sectarian interests

Where can I find our more about the politics behind the WHO and their sectarian interests?

I am interested to know which members of the WHO have associations with what pharmaceutical companies – Does anyone know where I could find this out?

]]> By: tmac57 http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8325 tmac57 Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:03:52 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8325 In the category of "what's the harm": Just last night I heard an acquaintance say that he had a friend in another state that had non-hodgkins lymphoma, and was forgoing conventional treatment for an intensive 2 year homeopathic treatment. The friend was advised that he would not be able to work,so he quit his job and has to rely on friends and strangers to raise the funds to help pay for the "treatments". I guess no further comment is necessary. Sad. In the category of “what’s the harm”: Just last night I heard an acquaintance say that he had a friend in another state that had non-hodgkins lymphoma, and was forgoing conventional treatment for an intensive 2 year homeopathic treatment. The friend was advised that he would not be able to work,so he quit his job and has to rely on friends and strangers to raise the funds to help pay for the “treatments”.
I guess no further comment is necessary. Sad.

]]> By: MadScientists http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8317 MadScientists Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:13:06 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8317 I think part of the problem is the severely misguided notion that you musn't offend anyone. Don't tell a nation that the bullshit cures they have used for centuries doesn't work, you might upset them. However, that certainly does not justify promoting nonsense; instead they should be promoting proper cures as "better". There is also this fear of condemning "traditional treatment" since a small number of traditional remedies actually work, but rather than promote all quackery WHO should demand that the traditional remedies be proven more effective than existing pharmaceutical products. I get myself into trouble all the time telling Chinese and Vietnamese friends that acupuncture is bullshit, but I don't stop. What is it that the WHO fears? I think part of the problem is the severely misguided notion that you musn’t offend anyone. Don’t tell a nation that the bullshit cures they have used for centuries doesn’t work, you might upset them. However, that certainly does not justify promoting nonsense; instead they should be promoting proper cures as “better”. There is also this fear of condemning “traditional treatment” since a small number of traditional remedies actually work, but rather than promote all quackery WHO should demand that the traditional remedies be proven more effective than existing pharmaceutical products.

I get myself into trouble all the time telling Chinese and Vietnamese friends that acupuncture is bullshit, but I don’t stop. What is it that the WHO fears?

]]> By: fluffy http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8314 fluffy Mon, 01 Jun 2009 23:42:01 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8314 The WHO lost all credibility in my mind when they published <a href="http://www.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/" rel="nofollow">this report</a> extolling the virtues of acupuncture based on a number of studies which didn't even <em>pretend</em> to be double-blind or even have a proper control group; without any critical discussion of the results themselves, it just lists out a large collection of conditions which "can" be treated by acupuncture, in the same way that they "can" be treated by saying magic words to will them away. The WHO lost all credibility in my mind when they published this report extolling the virtues of acupuncture based on a number of studies which didn’t even pretend to be double-blind or even have a proper control group; without any critical discussion of the results themselves, it just lists out a large collection of conditions which “can” be treated by acupuncture, in the same way that they “can” be treated by saying magic words to will them away.

]]> By: AndyN http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8311 AndyN Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:36:26 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8311 I couldn't agree more with you Steven. Here's an idea: maybe your last paragraph should be extended and reformatted into an open letter to universities and science academics around the world (in a similar way that the Australian Skeptics did to Pharmacists). Get James Randy and Phil Plait on the band wagon, and it might be a perfect storm. As you have already shown with the awesome SGU podcast, practicing science can no longer just be about wearing a white coat and staying in the lab 24/7, more emphasis needs to be given by every scientist to communicate science effectively to the wider community. Without it, pseudoscience threatens to fill the gaps in the media where credible science should be found. More charitable organisations like the London based "Sense about science" need to be encouraged. I sense that the tide has already started to turn against pseudoscience, but maybe we shouldn't be complacent. After all, it could just be confirmation bias ;-) I couldn’t agree more with you Steven. Here’s an idea: maybe your last paragraph should be extended and reformatted into an open letter to universities and science academics around the world (in a similar way that the Australian Skeptics did to Pharmacists). Get James Randy and Phil Plait on the band wagon, and it might be a perfect storm.

As you have already shown with the awesome SGU podcast, practicing science can no longer just be about wearing a white coat and staying in the lab 24/7, more emphasis needs to be given by every scientist to communicate science effectively to the wider community. Without it, pseudoscience threatens to fill the gaps in the media where credible science should be found. More charitable organisations like the London based “Sense about science” need to be encouraged.

I sense that the tide has already started to turn against pseudoscience, but maybe we shouldn’t be complacent. After all, it could just be confirmation bias ;-)

]]> By: Kitapsiz http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8302 Kitapsiz Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:44:40 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8302 OH NOES!!! Say it isn't so, Dr. Novella!!! A "world" political organisation so easily corrupted by political graft? That along with group think could make this world ... well ... exactly what we see today. I think we need more media, that'll do the trick. ::snicker:: OH NOES!!! Say it isn’t so, Dr. Novella!!!

A “world” political organisation so easily corrupted by political graft?

That along with group think could make this world … well … exactly what we see today.

I think we need more media, that’ll do the trick.

::snicker::

]]> By: Malachi Constant http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/06/01/young-scientists-condemn-cam-in-the-third-world/#comment-8294 Malachi Constant Mon, 01 Jun 2009 14:42:28 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=2805#comment-8294 This is the sort of thing that pushes me toward Sam Harris' idea that believing in woo can be truly genocidal. I don't think the Jenny McCarthy's or the Oprah's of the world think about what effect their non-scientific beliefs have on a truly uninformed population. Homeopathy is great when you're treating a problem in your head, but when you give it to people with a real medical condition in lieu of proper treatment it amounts to murder. I wish these media figures would look at how the nonsense they spout winds up killing people across the world. This is the sort of thing that pushes me toward Sam Harris’ idea that believing in woo can be truly genocidal.

I don’t think the Jenny McCarthy’s or the Oprah’s of the world think about what effect their non-scientific beliefs have on a truly uninformed population. Homeopathy is great when you’re treating a problem in your head, but when you give it to people with a real medical condition in lieu of proper treatment it amounts to murder.

I wish these media figures would look at how the nonsense they spout winds up killing people across the world.

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