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	<title>Comments on: The Australian antivax movement takes its toll</title>
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		<title>By: concerned Mom</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-9419</link>
		<dc:creator>concerned Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 01:32:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-9419</guid>
		<description>It always amazes me the anger parents who vaccinate have against those who chose not to. The decision to not vaccinate for us (and many others) was made after literally months of constant research and agonizingly weighing the risks and benefits. My nephew became autistic after his 2 year shots 19 years ago. I knew nothing about autism or vaccines at the time. I started researching vaccines when I became a first time Mom. Some children are genetically at risk of having bad reactions, especially those with allergies(like ours). Many vaccines are made from chickens, eggs, and other animals. There are known carcinogens,  lead, aluminum, mercury, and formaldehyde in them. Injecting these things into our childrens healthy bodies can be worse than exposure to most of the childhood diseases we are trying to prevent(diseases that have mostly been eradicated in the US through good hygiene and better nutrition). Yes, whooping cough can kill an infant, and is the one vaccine that might be worth the risk to get. After the age of two, it is not necessary. I was fortunate to be able to stay home with my children and keep them away from exposure as infants. My Mom was forced to vaccinate me when I entered first grade and I was very ill for 3 months after.  She was very ill after a flu shot.  Despite our bad reactions, this is not enough to get a medical waiver to exempt my children from being vaccinated.  If the government took control of vaccinating my children, it is very likely they too would have bad reactions. I would be forced to watch in horror as they were given something that could destroy their health for years to come (read up on the neurological damage, among other physical side effects). Please, I urge everyone to do your own research on this very important issue. Read about the documented deaths and bad reactions. About the government fund for vaccine damaged children which has payed out millions. About how the only known cases of polio in the US since 1985 were FROM the vaccine itself. Read about strengthening your child&#039;s immune system the natural way through nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. Many people accuse those who don&#039;t vaccinate of trying to benefit from the herd immunity or others. I have read many times while researching vaccines that any immunity they may give does not last very long and that is why you must have booster shots. There are documented outbreaks of measles where most had been fully vaccinated. The vaccinated child whose immune system has been weakened by constantly giving it new viruses to fight (it is documented that immediately after receiving vaccines your T- cell count goes down) can actually be more susceptible to disease than an non-vaccinated child with a healthy uncompromised immune system. I do not believe your vaccinated child is protecting mine at all.  I believe you are doing what you believe is best for your child.  It is what I would have done if my nephew didn&#039;t have autism. I never would have questioned my doctor.  But the fact is he does have autism.  And now I am aware of the possible dangers. My children are too precious to me to be a statistic under vaccine side-effects. You vaccinate your child because you believe it will protect them. I don&#039;t vaccinate to protect mine. It should be every parent&#039;s right to do what they believe is best for their child. Don&#039;t ever let anyone take that away from us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It always amazes me the anger parents who vaccinate have against those who chose not to. The decision to not vaccinate for us (and many others) was made after literally months of constant research and agonizingly weighing the risks and benefits. My nephew became autistic after his 2 year shots 19 years ago. I knew nothing about autism or vaccines at the time. I started researching vaccines when I became a first time Mom. Some children are genetically at risk of having bad reactions, especially those with allergies(like ours). Many vaccines are made from chickens, eggs, and other animals. There are known carcinogens,  lead, aluminum, mercury, and formaldehyde in them. Injecting these things into our childrens healthy bodies can be worse than exposure to most of the childhood diseases we are trying to prevent(diseases that have mostly been eradicated in the US through good hygiene and better nutrition). Yes, whooping cough can kill an infant, and is the one vaccine that might be worth the risk to get. After the age of two, it is not necessary. I was fortunate to be able to stay home with my children and keep them away from exposure as infants. My Mom was forced to vaccinate me when I entered first grade and I was very ill for 3 months after.  She was very ill after a flu shot.  Despite our bad reactions, this is not enough to get a medical waiver to exempt my children from being vaccinated.  If the government took control of vaccinating my children, it is very likely they too would have bad reactions. I would be forced to watch in horror as they were given something that could destroy their health for years to come (read up on the neurological damage, among other physical side effects). Please, I urge everyone to do your own research on this very important issue. Read about the documented deaths and bad reactions. About the government fund for vaccine damaged children which has payed out millions. About how the only known cases of polio in the US since 1985 were FROM the vaccine itself. Read about strengthening your child&#8217;s immune system the natural way through nutrition and a healthy lifestyle. Many people accuse those who don&#8217;t vaccinate of trying to benefit from the herd immunity or others. I have read many times while researching vaccines that any immunity they may give does not last very long and that is why you must have booster shots. There are documented outbreaks of measles where most had been fully vaccinated. The vaccinated child whose immune system has been weakened by constantly giving it new viruses to fight (it is documented that immediately after receiving vaccines your T- cell count goes down) can actually be more susceptible to disease than an non-vaccinated child with a healthy uncompromised immune system. I do not believe your vaccinated child is protecting mine at all.  I believe you are doing what you believe is best for your child.  It is what I would have done if my nephew didn&#8217;t have autism. I never would have questioned my doctor.  But the fact is he does have autism.  And now I am aware of the possible dangers. My children are too precious to me to be a statistic under vaccine side-effects. You vaccinate your child because you believe it will protect them. I don&#8217;t vaccinate to protect mine. It should be every parent&#8217;s right to do what they believe is best for their child. Don&#8217;t ever let anyone take that away from us.</p>
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		<title>By: Vern</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-7838</link>
		<dc:creator>Vern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 May 2009 10:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-7838</guid>
		<description>To: Lady Why

You, madam, have my utmost admiration and respect. You are to be commended for your &quot;naïveté&quot; regarding the increasing erosion of freedoms in western societies. I too, hope you&#039;re wrong, but I harbour the same concerns.

You have earned my admiration with your clear critical thinking and cogent argument, not to mention your sense of parental responsibility and results as a home educator. 

I strongly agree with all your points and position. Your arguments outshine all the other posters. The &quot;science&quot; concerning vaccinations is not settled. As long as agencies with commercial or political interests are providing the studies and reports, the truth will not emerge (bearing in mind that all truth is transitory, relative and subject to perspective, parameters and knowledge base. There is no absolute truth.). More people like yourself are needed to rise above the sheeple and challenge the herd mentality by speaking out.

Keep up the good work in raising your children to critically think, and search out truth to the best of their ability. Future society will be the better for it. I wish I had the privilege of knowing you personally.

Best wishes to you and your family.

.....Vern</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To: Lady Why</p>
<p>You, madam, have my utmost admiration and respect. You are to be commended for your &#8220;naïveté&#8221; regarding the increasing erosion of freedoms in western societies. I too, hope you&#8217;re wrong, but I harbour the same concerns.</p>
<p>You have earned my admiration with your clear critical thinking and cogent argument, not to mention your sense of parental responsibility and results as a home educator. </p>
<p>I strongly agree with all your points and position. Your arguments outshine all the other posters. The &#8220;science&#8221; concerning vaccinations is not settled. As long as agencies with commercial or political interests are providing the studies and reports, the truth will not emerge (bearing in mind that all truth is transitory, relative and subject to perspective, parameters and knowledge base. There is no absolute truth.). More people like yourself are needed to rise above the sheeple and challenge the herd mentality by speaking out.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work in raising your children to critically think, and search out truth to the best of their ability. Future society will be the better for it. I wish I had the privilege of knowing you personally.</p>
<p>Best wishes to you and your family.</p>
<p>&#8230;..Vern</p>
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		<title>By: Sabio</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6942</link>
		<dc:creator>Sabio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 19:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6942</guid>
		<description>Perhaps if the government stopped pushing it, and you let private companies compete to offer their version of the vaccines.  They could probably do better advertising.  Maybe too late to switch, but ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps if the government stopped pushing it, and you let private companies compete to offer their version of the vaccines.  They could probably do better advertising.  Maybe too late to switch, but &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Why</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6696</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6696</guid>
		<description>The last swine flu outbreak occurred in February 1976 in Fort Dix, New Jersey and one person died. A swine flu vaccine was given to people from October 1976 to December 1976. The swine flu vaccine caused many side effects, including Guillain-Barre syndrome and 25 people died FROM THE VACCINE. Sometimes the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. Glad the vaccine wasn&#039;t mandatory!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last swine flu outbreak occurred in February 1976 in Fort Dix, New Jersey and one person died. A swine flu vaccine was given to people from October 1976 to December 1976. The swine flu vaccine caused many side effects, including Guillain-Barre syndrome and 25 people died FROM THE VACCINE. Sometimes the vaccine is more dangerous than the disease. Glad the vaccine wasn&#8217;t mandatory!</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Why</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6695</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6695</guid>
		<description>Well, I assumed you meant enforcing the current laws, and so far vaccines are not mandatory.  Of course, there are lots of people trying to make them so.  I think you already know my position on that based on my many other comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I assumed you meant enforcing the current laws, and so far vaccines are not mandatory.  Of course, there are lots of people trying to make them so.  I think you already know my position on that based on my many other comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6250</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 00:19:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6250</guid>
		<description>Last time around??? Not really sure which &quot;last time around you&#039;re talking about. And yes if vaccines were able to stop the swine flu in it&#039;s track then it think it should be manditory for people who want to be a part of our society. Not to mention that more people die daily from regular flu than the swine flu, more people need to get their flu shot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last time around??? Not really sure which &#8220;last time around you&#8217;re talking about. And yes if vaccines were able to stop the swine flu in it&#8217;s track then it think it should be manditory for people who want to be a part of our society. Not to mention that more people die daily from regular flu than the swine flu, more people need to get their flu shot.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6249</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 00:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6249</guid>
		<description>@ Lady Why

I don&#039;t think that you do agree, if you understand my point. I put vaccines in with the previous grouping (akin to negligence)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lady Why</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that you do agree, if you understand my point. I put vaccines in with the previous grouping (akin to negligence)</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Why</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6109</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 20:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6109</guid>
		<description>HCN,  That&#039;s not my only argument.  I&#039;m a big proponent of state&#039;s rights.  The current political climate is much in favor of infringing on state&#039;s rights. We are lobbying our state legislature to introduce legislation asserting the sovereignty of the state.  It&#039;s an important issue.

How restricted do my freedoms have to be for me to &#039;have a clue&#039;? I don&#039;t have to live in Russia for me to have an understanding of what it is like and know that I&#039;d prefer not to live like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HCN,  That&#8217;s not my only argument.  I&#8217;m a big proponent of state&#8217;s rights.  The current political climate is much in favor of infringing on state&#8217;s rights. We are lobbying our state legislature to introduce legislation asserting the sovereignty of the state.  It&#8217;s an important issue.</p>
<p>How restricted do my freedoms have to be for me to &#8216;have a clue&#8217;? I don&#8217;t have to live in Russia for me to have an understanding of what it is like and know that I&#8217;d prefer not to live like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Why</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6107</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6107</guid>
		<description>I ask about your knowledge of the president because you seem to think that we don&#039;t have an assault on our freedoms here in the US.  Our current political climate is such that our freedoms are very much under attack.  Our banks are being nationalized, our healthcare is on the brink of social medicine and if Obama has his way, our right to bear arms will come to a screeching halt. And, that&#039;s just in his first 100 days!  Don&#039;t even get me started about the way the government is bankrupting my children&#039;s futures!  I consider that an attack on our freedoms.  I love my country&#039;s constitution and I&#039;d like to see it upheld.  That&#039;s just me.

What does science have to do with a call for compulsory vaccinations?  That&#039;s what I&#039;ve been wondering throughout this whole thread.  It&#039;s not about the vaccinations, it&#039;s about freedom of choice and parents&#039; rights.

Just for clarification, I was a chemist in my &#039;pre-mommy&#039; days.  I have a chemistry degree, since you seem to think I have a &#039;basic lack of science education&#039;.  Funny.  My big dream back in my college days was to cure cancer.  My big dream now is to raise my children to think for themselves and not accept information as fact just because some scientist said it or some politician said it or because I said it.  Finding people who think for themselves and can reason together is a rare commodity.

Actually, I&#039;d take your challenge to take those tests in a New York minute!  Politics, government and current events are all passions/hobbies/interests of mine.  I think I&#039;d do pretty well.  My 19 year old clepped American Government and I homeschooled her so I must have done SOMETHING right! ;-)&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ask about your knowledge of the president because you seem to think that we don&#8217;t have an assault on our freedoms here in the US.  Our current political climate is such that our freedoms are very much under attack.  Our banks are being nationalized, our healthcare is on the brink of social medicine and if Obama has his way, our right to bear arms will come to a screeching halt. And, that&#8217;s just in his first 100 days!  Don&#8217;t even get me started about the way the government is bankrupting my children&#8217;s futures!  I consider that an attack on our freedoms.  I love my country&#8217;s constitution and I&#8217;d like to see it upheld.  That&#8217;s just me.</p>
<p>What does science have to do with a call for compulsory vaccinations?  That&#8217;s what I&#8217;ve been wondering throughout this whole thread.  It&#8217;s not about the vaccinations, it&#8217;s about freedom of choice and parents&#8217; rights.</p>
<p>Just for clarification, I was a chemist in my &#8216;pre-mommy&#8217; days.  I have a chemistry degree, since you seem to think I have a &#8216;basic lack of science education&#8217;.  Funny.  My big dream back in my college days was to cure cancer.  My big dream now is to raise my children to think for themselves and not accept information as fact just because some scientist said it or some politician said it or because I said it.  Finding people who think for themselves and can reason together is a rare commodity.</p>
<p>Actually, I&#8217;d take your challenge to take those tests in a New York minute!  Politics, government and current events are all passions/hobbies/interests of mine.  I think I&#8217;d do pretty well.  My 19 year old clepped American Government and I homeschooled her so I must have done SOMETHING right! ;-)&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: Lady Why</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/29/the-australian-antivax-movement-takes-its-toll/#comment-6106</link>
		<dc:creator>Lady Why</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 May 2009 19:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=2236#comment-6106</guid>
		<description>Actually, Joe, the level of risk depends on the child. Some children, the risk of the vaccine is quite large.  You don&#039;t get to say ho high the risk is for MY child.

And, I don&#039;t think assessing my child&#039;s risk is &#039;inherently flawed&#039; or &#039;selfishly biased&#039;.  You can&#039;t know my child&#039;s risk factors so you can make that judgment.

To say that the risk for MY CHILD is &#039;orders of magnitude less than the risk of being unvaccinated&#039; is &#039;inherently flawed and selifshly biased&#039;, in my opinion, because you don&#039;t know my child&#039;s risk factors!

Also, how much more &#039;small worlded&#039; can you be to say that my one non-vaccinated child poses a risk to the larger population as a whole?  What if my child never acquired a dread disease to spread?  Or what if everyone else is vaccinated?  Then there is no risk to them.  You can&#039;t assume my non-vaccinated child, simply by the fact he&#039;s non-vaccinated, is a risk to anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Joe, the level of risk depends on the child. Some children, the risk of the vaccine is quite large.  You don&#8217;t get to say ho high the risk is for MY child.</p>
<p>And, I don&#8217;t think assessing my child&#8217;s risk is &#8216;inherently flawed&#8217; or &#8216;selfishly biased&#8217;.  You can&#8217;t know my child&#8217;s risk factors so you can make that judgment.</p>
<p>To say that the risk for MY CHILD is &#8216;orders of magnitude less than the risk of being unvaccinated&#8217; is &#8216;inherently flawed and selifshly biased&#8217;, in my opinion, because you don&#8217;t know my child&#8217;s risk factors!</p>
<p>Also, how much more &#8216;small worlded&#8217; can you be to say that my one non-vaccinated child poses a risk to the larger population as a whole?  What if my child never acquired a dread disease to spread?  Or what if everyone else is vaccinated?  Then there is no risk to them.  You can&#8217;t assume my non-vaccinated child, simply by the fact he&#8217;s non-vaccinated, is a risk to anyone.</p>
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