Comments on: KNOWING, …or NOT? http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:38:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Mark Edward http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5375 Mark Edward Wed, 15 Apr 2009 15:27:53 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5375 NOOOOOOOO. I'm not related in ANY way to John Edward. I was using the "Edward" name long before John Edward ever showed up on the scene. My real name is Mark Edward Wilson. When I started perfroming at The Magic Castle back in 1975, Mark Wilson (of "Magic Land of Alakazam" fame...) was on the Board of Directors there and I was told that if I wanted to work there, I would have to chose another name. Since The Amazing Randi was already taken, I decided to use my middle name Edward. The rest is history and I often wonder if John Edward (if that is indeed his real name)saw me doing mentalism somewhere and thought it a good name or what... Hope this isn't TMI. NOOOOOOOO. I’m not related in ANY way to John Edward. I was using the “Edward” name long before John Edward ever showed up on the scene. My real name is Mark Edward Wilson. When I started perfroming at The Magic Castle back in 1975, Mark Wilson (of “Magic Land of Alakazam” fame…) was on the Board of Directors there and I was told that if I wanted to work there, I would have to chose another name. Since The Amazing Randi was already taken, I decided to use my middle name Edward. The rest is history and I often wonder if John Edward (if that is indeed his real name)saw me doing mentalism somewhere and thought it a good name or what… Hope this isn’t TMI.

]]> By: Jeshua http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5369 Jeshua Wed, 15 Apr 2009 14:39:36 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5369 There are shows that are based on myth-busting on TV, they are just outnumbered by the woo shows. But you can't assume that this is because most people believe they are true, they just happen to be entertaining. I love watching the likes of Sylvia Browne and John Edward do their thing. Personally, i never found either very convincing, though. BTW, you aren't by any chance related to John are you? You seem to cover a lot of the same territory, though from opposite sides of the fence. There are shows that are based on myth-busting on TV, they are just outnumbered by the woo shows. But you can’t assume that this is because most people believe they are true, they just happen to be entertaining. I love watching the likes of Sylvia Browne and John Edward do their thing. Personally, i never found either very convincing, though. BTW, you aren’t by any chance related to John are you? You seem to cover a lot of the same territory, though from opposite sides of the fence.

]]> By: GAZZA http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5321 GAZZA Tue, 14 Apr 2009 03:07:12 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5321 Well, maybe it's just me, but yeah - I count the Rapture and the Heaven's Gate beliefs as pure fantasy. :) I look forward to the book. Well, maybe it’s just me, but yeah – I count the Rapture and the Heaven’s Gate beliefs as pure fantasy. :)

I look forward to the book.

]]> By: Mark Edward http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5306 Mark Edward Mon, 13 Apr 2009 17:04:26 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5306 Plenty of people believe in things similar to "Knowing." Trust me, I worked in the biggest Spiritualist church in Orange County, CA. And it's not just numerology. ...Oh no. Everything is fair game when you are in the "church" environment. The ending is pure fantasy huh? Apparently you have forgotten about The Rapture and let's not count out the mass death cult of Heaven's Gate. It's all too real for some folks. They live, breath and exist for just such hokum. Sad really, but if you can keep a stright face like I did, you can pitch ANYTHING and even start your own church or group if you happen to have absolutely no conscience. It's easy. With the help of England's premier Hoaxer Tony "Doc" Shiels, we put together a whale/alien conspiracy that was tied into the annual California whale migration in 1999. The pitch was: aliens were going to finslly come out from their undersea lair and break the inter-species communication barrier with the help of the whales and dolphin langauge experts. We got the cover of FATE Magazine with that one and shortly after that, Art Bell's Orange County Chat Club showed up in full force at my "lecture" on the subject. A few mentalist bits and they were all eating out of the palm of my hand. In fact, if I hadn't insisted on steering the gathering away from the Art Bell crowd, they would have gone on for hours without me. Throw them a ball and they will run and run with it. The full sroty is written up in "Psychic Blues" in the chapter: "The OC Occultist." Doc and I are hard at work on another whopper that will be coming along soon. We have no shame... Plenty of people believe in things similar to “Knowing.” Trust me, I worked in the biggest Spiritualist church in Orange County, CA. And it’s not just numerology. …Oh no. Everything is fair game when you are in the “church” environment. The ending is pure fantasy huh? Apparently you have forgotten about The Rapture and let’s not count out the mass death cult of Heaven’s Gate. It’s all too real for some folks. They live, breath and exist for just such hokum. Sad really, but if you can keep a stright face like I did, you can pitch ANYTHING and even start your own church or group if you happen to have absolutely no conscience. It’s easy. With the help of England’s premier Hoaxer Tony “Doc” Shiels, we put together a whale/alien conspiracy that was tied into the annual California whale migration in 1999. The pitch was: aliens were going to finslly come out from their undersea lair and break the inter-species communication barrier with the help of the whales and dolphin langauge experts. We got the cover of FATE Magazine with that one and shortly after that, Art Bell’s Orange County Chat Club showed up in full force at my “lecture” on the subject. A few mentalist bits and they were all eating out of the palm of my hand. In fact, if I hadn’t insisted on steering the gathering away from the Art Bell crowd, they would have gone on for hours without me. Throw them a ball and they will run and run with it. The full sroty is written up in “Psychic Blues” in the chapter: “The OC Occultist.” Doc and I are hard at work on another whopper that will be coming along soon. We have no shame…

]]> By: GAZZA http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5210 GAZZA Thu, 09 Apr 2009 07:40:24 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5210 @MadScientist: Wow, I hope you manage to come for air - year isn't even half over yet. :) I'm not sure that anyone really believes anything similar to Knowing. There are a few numerology references that I suppose some people might by, but the ending is just pure fantasy. There are a few cases where the "skeptic view" is shown in a somewhat negative light, and you have the usual Hollywood Atheist (ie they all change their minds right at the end, and they're all atheists because of some deep trauma - whatever), but nothing particularly in your face there (in my opinion - it is possible that Mark saw something I missed, of course, and I'm certainly not planning to see it again to find out). That said, I suspect it's a lot better than "What the %$%# do we know?" or "Expelled", and on a par with "Signs". It's certainly not the worst movie I've ever seen (that would be "Ghost in the Machine", still the reigning champion after over a decade), or even a terrible movie - it's just (IMHO) not a GOOD movie either. There is certainly room enough for personal preference here, of course. @MadScientist: Wow, I hope you manage to come for air – year isn’t even half over yet. :)

I’m not sure that anyone really believes anything similar to Knowing. There are a few numerology references that I suppose some people might by, but the ending is just pure fantasy. There are a few cases where the “skeptic view” is shown in a somewhat negative light, and you have the usual Hollywood Atheist (ie they all change their minds right at the end, and they’re all atheists because of some deep trauma – whatever), but nothing particularly in your face there (in my opinion – it is possible that Mark saw something I missed, of course, and I’m certainly not planning to see it again to find out).

That said, I suspect it’s a lot better than “What the %$%# do we know?” or “Expelled”, and on a par with “Signs”. It’s certainly not the worst movie I’ve ever seen (that would be “Ghost in the Machine”, still the reigning champion after over a decade), or even a terrible movie – it’s just (IMHO) not a GOOD movie either. There is certainly room enough for personal preference here, of course.

]]> By: MadScientist http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5204 MadScientist Thu, 09 Apr 2009 06:26:06 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5204 @Gazza: Mark seems to be saying "watch the movie to see the sort of thing that people like to believe". I think I'll wait for the DVD (that should be out next week - haha); I've got myself too much work and it looks like I won't have any free time until the new year - blah. Yet somehow I still can't stop talking to colleagues about teaming up for new projects. @Gazza:

Mark seems to be saying “watch the movie to see the sort of thing that people like to believe”. I think I’ll wait for the DVD (that should be out next week – haha); I’ve got myself too much work and it looks like I won’t have any free time until the new year – blah. Yet somehow I still can’t stop talking to colleagues about teaming up for new projects.

]]> By: GAZZA http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5201 GAZZA Thu, 09 Apr 2009 01:33:43 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5201 To be clear - I'm not saying that the woo is why I didn't like this movie. That's just suspension of disbelief - I would be unable to enjoy superhero movies if I required all films to be scientifically plausible (which would in turn rule out Watchmen, and I don't really want to live in a world where I couldn't enjoy that). I'm disagreeing, rather, with the idea that the movie was entertaining and well acted, as I found it to be neither of those. But as I say - it takes all kinds; about the only thing I'm taking away here is that I won't NECESSARILY like any movie that Mark recommends. :) To be clear – I’m not saying that the woo is why I didn’t like this movie. That’s just suspension of disbelief – I would be unable to enjoy superhero movies if I required all films to be scientifically plausible (which would in turn rule out Watchmen, and I don’t really want to live in a world where I couldn’t enjoy that).

I’m disagreeing, rather, with the idea that the movie was entertaining and well acted, as I found it to be neither of those. But as I say – it takes all kinds; about the only thing I’m taking away here is that I won’t NECESSARILY like any movie that Mark recommends. :)

]]> By: Mark Edward http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5189 Mark Edward Wed, 08 Apr 2009 22:22:56 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5189 Thanks for the link to the Roger Ebert review BillDarryl. Minus the magic analogy, he makes much more sense than I did in mine. But hey ...that's his job and he gets paid plenty for it. Worth reading. If you don't care about spoiling the ending and are willing to follow through and read his later blog, he says a lot more abouit it and eloquently points out the basic flaw in logic contained in the determination/free will premise and adds: "Believe me, I know the plot is preposterous. That's part of the charm. You go to an end-of-the-world thriller starring Nicolas Cage looking scared to death, and you're in for a dime, in for a dollar. I love to dissect improbabilities in movies, but with "Knowing" I simply didn't care. I was carried by the energy. The premise, about that little girl in 1959 sealing up her letter, is preposterous. Every ad starts with that. What were you expecting, the Scientific American?" As a mentalist, I was carried away with that damn envelope too. Right. ...It's just a movie. Thanks for the link to the Roger Ebert review BillDarryl. Minus the magic analogy, he makes much more sense than I did in mine. But hey …that’s his job and he gets paid plenty for it. Worth reading. If you don’t care about spoiling the ending and are willing to follow through and read his later blog, he says a lot more abouit it and eloquently points out the basic flaw in logic contained in the determination/free will premise and adds:
“Believe me, I know the plot is preposterous. That’s part of the charm. You go to an end-of-the-world thriller starring Nicolas Cage looking scared to death, and you’re in for a dime, in for a dollar. I love to dissect improbabilities in movies, but with “Knowing” I simply didn’t care. I was carried by the energy. The premise, about that little girl in 1959 sealing up her letter, is preposterous. Every ad starts with that. What were you expecting, the Scientific American?”
As a mentalist, I was carried away with that damn envelope too. Right. …It’s just a movie.

]]> By: Anthony O'Neal http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5185 Anthony O'Neal Wed, 08 Apr 2009 21:18:54 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5185 http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/knowing/ Good reviews? You be the judge. You may hate critics, but you can't say that they gave it good reviews! http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/knowing/

Good reviews? You be the judge. You may hate critics, but you can’t say that they gave it good reviews!

]]> By: BillDarryl http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/04/07/knowing-or-not/#comment-5163 BillDarryl Wed, 08 Apr 2009 17:23:28 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1871#comment-5163 The generally rational and pro-science Roger Ebert LOVED it: http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090318/REVIEWS/903189991 The generally rational and pro-science Roger Ebert LOVED it:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090318/REVIEWS/903189991

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