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	<title>Comments on: The Chess Master &amp; the Checkers Players</title>
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	<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/</link>
	<description>The official blog of the Skeptologists</description>
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		<title>By: Wrong</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-66849</link>
		<dc:creator>Wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-66849</guid>
		<description>Thankyou for this. As someone who has always considered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime, this is very interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thankyou for this. As someone who has always considered the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki a war crime, this is very interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: Wrong</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-66848</link>
		<dc:creator>Wrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Oct 2011 13:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-66848</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d disagree that using the Nuclear weapon against the Japanese is morally justifiable. It&#039;s a war crime. It was an attack on two Japanese cities populated by civilians, in an attempt at mass murder forcing the Japanese to surrender: It was an act of what we would today define as Terrorism. And the moral judgement should not be made on the basis that you helped your own nation, but that you didn&#039;t hurt others. Slaughtering civilians is wrong. It would be more moral to send in the soldiers. Sure you would lose many, and kill more, but with the intention of killing those who want to fight, and not indiscriminately commiting mass murder. That would be an evil act.

Often pragmatic and simple solutions are morally bad. There is no justification for slaughtering civilians. Justifying your own weapons buildups by accusing others of doing the same results in never ending escalation, eventually crippling the USSR and Eastern Europe, and causing war in Afghanistan. It also caused poverty throughout Eastern Europe. Sure, you do need to be able to defend yourself, but that should never descend into Facism, and accumulating weaponry for the sake of weaponry will never end well. Einstein put it best: &quot;I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought: But World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.&quot;.

Pacifism is good. I would argue that anyone against pacifism is wrong, morally bankrupt, and needs to reconsider morality. War, and killing, are bad, and wrong. Every good soldier should be fighting for peace, not war. I can&#039;t think of any Ethical way to justify starting a war, unless you can decide that the evil that you want to attack them for commiting is bigger than the one you will commit in fighting them (Unless of course, they attack you). I&#039;d say that advocating war would make you Evil by my moral code. Sure, sometimes war is necessary. Fighting the Nazis, necessary, fighting the Germans in World War 1 may also have been necessary. But in the modern world, is there any Nation that America need fear? No. Who did they attack? Backwards arabic societies in the middle east. Come on, that&#039;s not ethically justifiable. If you can justify dropping bombs on innocents, then you&#039;re wrong. It&#039;s that simple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d disagree that using the Nuclear weapon against the Japanese is morally justifiable. It&#8217;s a war crime. It was an attack on two Japanese cities populated by civilians, in an attempt at mass murder forcing the Japanese to surrender: It was an act of what we would today define as Terrorism. And the moral judgement should not be made on the basis that you helped your own nation, but that you didn&#8217;t hurt others. Slaughtering civilians is wrong. It would be more moral to send in the soldiers. Sure you would lose many, and kill more, but with the intention of killing those who want to fight, and not indiscriminately commiting mass murder. That would be an evil act.</p>
<p>Often pragmatic and simple solutions are morally bad. There is no justification for slaughtering civilians. Justifying your own weapons buildups by accusing others of doing the same results in never ending escalation, eventually crippling the USSR and Eastern Europe, and causing war in Afghanistan. It also caused poverty throughout Eastern Europe. Sure, you do need to be able to defend yourself, but that should never descend into Facism, and accumulating weaponry for the sake of weaponry will never end well. Einstein put it best: &#8220;I know not with what weapons World War 3 will be fought: But World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones.&#8221;.</p>
<p>Pacifism is good. I would argue that anyone against pacifism is wrong, morally bankrupt, and needs to reconsider morality. War, and killing, are bad, and wrong. Every good soldier should be fighting for peace, not war. I can&#8217;t think of any Ethical way to justify starting a war, unless you can decide that the evil that you want to attack them for commiting is bigger than the one you will commit in fighting them (Unless of course, they attack you). I&#8217;d say that advocating war would make you Evil by my moral code. Sure, sometimes war is necessary. Fighting the Nazis, necessary, fighting the Germans in World War 1 may also have been necessary. But in the modern world, is there any Nation that America need fear? No. Who did they attack? Backwards arabic societies in the middle east. Come on, that&#8217;s not ethically justifiable. If you can justify dropping bombs on innocents, then you&#8217;re wrong. It&#8217;s that simple.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-5561</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Apr 2009 14:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-5561</guid>
		<description>&quot;All evil is unspectacular and always human/
it shares your bed and eats at your table.&quot;
-W.H. Auden</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;All evil is unspectacular and always human/<br />
it shares your bed and eats at your table.&#8221;<br />
-W.H. Auden</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Davis</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-5396</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:05:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-5396</guid>
		<description>Glenn, I would be a litle skeptical of the claim that a million lives were saved by the atom bombs. Where is the evidence for that? I would suggest everyone here read Freeman Dyson&#039;s essay in What Have You Changed Your Mind About? He points out that the Emperor&#039;s message to his troops calling for surrender references not the atomic bombs, but the Russian troop presence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glenn, I would be a litle skeptical of the claim that a million lives were saved by the atom bombs. Where is the evidence for that? I would suggest everyone here read Freeman Dyson&#8217;s essay in What Have You Changed Your Mind About? He points out that the Emperor&#8217;s message to his troops calling for surrender references not the atomic bombs, but the Russian troop presence.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry Hesch</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-4916</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry Hesch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-4916</guid>
		<description>Very enjoyable review, wish I had caught the PBS special. There are of course several books on Oppenheimer, though I cannot compare having only read 109 East Palace by Jennet Conant. It is a brilliant work. and if you ever visit 109 East Palace in Santa Fe, you will be in proximity of several fabulous New Mexican resturants. I know nothing else.
j</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very enjoyable review, wish I had caught the PBS special. There are of course several books on Oppenheimer, though I cannot compare having only read 109 East Palace by Jennet Conant. It is a brilliant work. and if you ever visit 109 East Palace in Santa Fe, you will be in proximity of several fabulous New Mexican resturants. I know nothing else.<br />
j</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Brock</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-4785</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 15:28:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-4785</guid>
		<description>See this: http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2143.html

His close association with active communists, and a post-cold war revelation (a code name for a spy that was in all probability a reference to Oppenheimer?) lead me to believe that he was leaking information to the soviets. Dr. Shermer&#039;s love affair with Oppies brainpower may have caused him to overlook serious problems with the man&#039;s patriotism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See this: <a href="http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2143.html" rel="nofollow">http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/2143.html</a></p>
<p>His close association with active communists, and a post-cold war revelation (a code name for a spy that was in all probability a reference to Oppenheimer?) lead me to believe that he was leaking information to the soviets. Dr. Shermer&#8217;s love affair with Oppies brainpower may have caused him to overlook serious problems with the man&#8217;s patriotism.</p>
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		<title>By: LJM</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-4264</link>
		<dc:creator>LJM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Mar 2009 16:33:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-4264</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Didn’t post-thaw investigation reveal that he was a Soviet spy?&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not aware of any evidence to support this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Didn’t post-thaw investigation reveal that he was a Soviet spy?</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not aware of any evidence to support this.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Brock</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-3912</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:45:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-3912</guid>
		<description>We seem not to bring to bear all of the information that we have regarding Oppenheimer. Didn&#039;t post-thaw investigation reveal that he was a Soviet spy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We seem not to bring to bear all of the information that we have regarding Oppenheimer. Didn&#8217;t post-thaw investigation reveal that he was a Soviet spy?</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-3847</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-3847</guid>
		<description>Freeman Dyson changed his mind about this.
http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_2.html#dysonf

&quot;I changed my mind about an important historical question: did the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bring World War Two to an end? Until this year I used to say, perhaps. Now, because of new facts, I say no. This question is important, because the myth of the nuclear bombs bringing the war to an end is widely believed.&quot;

The theory is that Japan surrendered because the Soviets invaded Manchuria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Freeman Dyson changed his mind about this.<br />
<a href="http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_2.html#dysonf" rel="nofollow">http://www.edge.org/q2008/q08_2.html#dysonf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I changed my mind about an important historical question: did the nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki bring World War Two to an end? Until this year I used to say, perhaps. Now, because of new facts, I say no. This question is important, because the myth of the nuclear bombs bringing the war to an end is widely believed.&#8221;</p>
<p>The theory is that Japan surrendered because the Soviets invaded Manchuria.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn Donovan</title>
		<link>http://www.skepticblog.org/2009/01/26/chess-master-and-checkers-players/#comment-3842</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn Donovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:13:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://skepticblog.org/?p=980#comment-3842</guid>
		<description>In this forum of skeptics, who attempt to govern their views by reason, I&#039;d expect more commentary on the morality of nuclear weapons. 

My two cents. Nuclear weapons have no inherent moral properties. Their invention was inevitable at the time Oppenheimer was involved, so the U.S. seems morally justified in developing them ahead of its enemies, the Nazis. Using the weapon against the Japanese is projected to have saved approximately 1 million U.S. soldiers lives, so that seems to have a solid moral basis. Remember, the Japanese leadership knew they were facing inevitable defeat and had the option to surrender in light of this knowledge. The fact that they didn&#039;t surrender after the first bombing tells volumes about the moral failings of Japans leadership at the time. One could further argue that the development of a superior nuclear arsenal by the U.S. led to a long period of relative peace in the world compared to the one hundred years that led up to the nuclear age. 

Oppenheimer seems to have had idealistic, pacifistic views of the world which don&#039;t comport with the current organization of the world. Ethicists can quite easily make a moral case for war, and having the appropriate weapons to defend oneself or to eliminate an enemy in a just war seems to again be a valid moral choice. Those who can&#039;t countenance this line of reasoning simply do not understand the geo-political realities of the world we live in. Whether this willful ignorance of the realties we face is in itself moral I&#039;ll leave to you all to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In this forum of skeptics, who attempt to govern their views by reason, I&#8217;d expect more commentary on the morality of nuclear weapons. </p>
<p>My two cents. Nuclear weapons have no inherent moral properties. Their invention was inevitable at the time Oppenheimer was involved, so the U.S. seems morally justified in developing them ahead of its enemies, the Nazis. Using the weapon against the Japanese is projected to have saved approximately 1 million U.S. soldiers lives, so that seems to have a solid moral basis. Remember, the Japanese leadership knew they were facing inevitable defeat and had the option to surrender in light of this knowledge. The fact that they didn&#8217;t surrender after the first bombing tells volumes about the moral failings of Japans leadership at the time. One could further argue that the development of a superior nuclear arsenal by the U.S. led to a long period of relative peace in the world compared to the one hundred years that led up to the nuclear age. </p>
<p>Oppenheimer seems to have had idealistic, pacifistic views of the world which don&#8217;t comport with the current organization of the world. Ethicists can quite easily make a moral case for war, and having the appropriate weapons to defend oneself or to eliminate an enemy in a just war seems to again be a valid moral choice. Those who can&#8217;t countenance this line of reasoning simply do not understand the geo-political realities of the world we live in. Whether this willful ignorance of the realties we face is in itself moral I&#8217;ll leave to you all to consider.</p>
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