Comments on: Skeptical Battlegrounds: Part I – Background http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:44:42 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: callmebaka http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-2402 callmebaka Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:31:56 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-2402 my first post so be kind pleasssssssseeeeeee there is someting to be said for the excepion so long as it so long as it never wants to become the rule - Neitzche forgive me quoting i dont mean to try to pull a trump card by apealing to a higher athoraty such a thing would be unforgivable in a sceptic i do so only becuuse it seem to sum up my position prety well and probibly more clearly than i am able to my self basicly the sheeple the unthinking masses are a neasary evil they create the basis for the stability of sociaty enabling it function while the exepions stop it from self destructing my first post so be kind pleasssssssseeeeeee

there is someting to be said for the excepion so long as it so long as it never wants to become the rule – Neitzche
forgive me quoting i dont mean to try to pull a trump card by apealing to a higher athoraty such a thing would be unforgivable in a sceptic i do so only becuuse it seem to sum up my position prety well and probibly more clearly than i am able to my self basicly the sheeple the unthinking masses are a neasary evil they create the basis for the stability of sociaty enabling it function while the exepions stop it from self destructing

]]> By: Danny http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1386 Danny Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:53:35 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1386 I agree whole heartedly - not as a scientist, but as a historian of science. It is important for people to know that the community that is humankind has always and will continue to benefit from the fruits of science in ways that most people don't understand. For what its worth, I am trying to do my part as well, having recently started my own science/skepticism blog @ www.reduciblycomplex.com. I agree whole heartedly – not as a scientist, but as a historian of science. It is important for people to know that the community that is humankind has always and will continue to benefit from the fruits of science in ways that most people don’t understand. For what its worth, I am trying to do my part as well, having recently started my own science/skepticism blog @ http://www.reduciblycomplex.com.

]]> By: ejdalise http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1150 ejdalise Fri, 05 Dec 2008 22:16:36 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1150 Well, heck, I'll agree with Dr. T. And while I agree with Dr. Novella that it's not about the war, but trying to have a positive impact, I have no illusions regarding the ultimate outcome. History does teach us one thing; people would far rather embrace the nonsensical. And while we may argue as to why, I will point to the current "how". Speed of communication. One youtube video about some fantastical claim will spread through society with unprecedented speed. By the time a counter argument can be mounted, literally millions will have see it. Add the fact whatever correction is put out is likely less interesting to most viewers, and you have the a pretty good picture of the way many people get their "information" these days. It's not just the willingness to believe (although that is a part of it), it's a matter of effort. It takes effort to slug through well reasoned information refuting a given claim. Most people's eyes will glaze over after a few moments. All they want is the "bottom line", and sensational claims are most efficient at providing it. So, a statement of "I've seen a ghost!" gets a lot more attention than an explanation as to why that is not possible, and conjecture regarding what it might have been. Yes, I think the war is lost, and all I hope for is to negotiate some favorable terms of surrender. Well, heck, I’ll agree with Dr. T.

And while I agree with Dr. Novella that it’s not about the war, but trying to have a positive impact, I have no illusions regarding the ultimate outcome.

History does teach us one thing; people would far rather embrace the nonsensical. And while we may argue as to why, I will point to the current “how”.

Speed of communication. One youtube video about some fantastical claim will spread through society with unprecedented speed. By the time a counter argument can be mounted, literally millions will have see it. Add the fact whatever correction is put out is likely less interesting to most viewers, and you have the a pretty good picture of the way many people get their “information” these days.

It’s not just the willingness to believe (although that is a part of it), it’s a matter of effort. It takes effort to slug through well reasoned information refuting a given claim. Most people’s eyes will glaze over after a few moments. All they want is the “bottom line”, and sensational claims are most efficient at providing it.

So, a statement of “I’ve seen a ghost!” gets a lot more attention than an explanation as to why that is not possible, and conjecture regarding what it might have been.

Yes, I think the war is lost, and all I hope for is to negotiate some favorable terms of surrender.

]]> By: Devil's Advocate http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1125 Devil's Advocate Thu, 04 Dec 2008 17:35:05 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1125 Alas, in my case that would have to be well into my 120s. My 20s are multiples of 20s in my past. *sigh* Alas, in my case that would have to be well into my 120s. My 20s are multiples of 20s in my past. *sigh*

]]> By: BillDarryl http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1114 BillDarryl Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:00:49 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1114 <i>I also disagree with Dr. T (would he be Mr. T’s neurologist?).</i> Of course not! Everyone knows Dr. T is the famous <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_5,000_Fingers_of_Dr._T" rel="nofollow">Dr. Terwilliker</a>, composer of "Ten Happy Fingers" et. al. (now there's a children's movie that will give you nightmares well into your 20s) I also disagree with Dr. T (would he be Mr. T’s neurologist?).

Of course not! Everyone knows Dr. T is the famous Dr. Terwilliker, composer of “Ten Happy Fingers” et. al.

(now there’s a children’s movie that will give you nightmares well into your 20s)

]]> By: Ian Mason http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1111 Ian Mason Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:18:51 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1111 Hear hear! Even the most ardent Super would prefer a sober pilot at the controls to any God in any pantheon. Also, how can bigots produce a "GAHD HATES FAGS" website - or any other manifestation of ignorance to be found on the web, be it ever so benign - when they don't believe in the science? Perhaps they think that the Almighty IS the hub of the information superhighway. If He is, He must then approve of the amount of pornography flying about. Logical, innit. Hear hear! Even the most ardent Super would prefer a sober pilot at the controls to any God in any pantheon. Also, how can bigots produce a “GAHD HATES FAGS” website – or any other manifestation of ignorance
to be found on the web, be it ever so benign – when they don’t believe in the science? Perhaps they think that the Almighty IS the hub of the information superhighway. If He is, He must then approve of the amount of pornography flying about. Logical, innit.

]]> By: Devil's Advocate http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1109 Devil's Advocate Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:32:51 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1109 I also disagree with Dr. T (would he be Mr. T's neurologist?). The fact is that *everybody* is a skeptic, varying only in degree, consistency, and efficacy. This is something I use when trying to talk with a believer - I look for examples of when he or she has been skeptical and suggest they apply the same process to the woo woo belief in question. That guy who believes wholeheartedly in ghosts, bigfoot, and UFOs as aliens ships? Watch him get all skeptical as he approaches an aircraft, suitcase in hand, and sees that the plane is leaking fuel, has parts hanging loose, and the pilot is drunk. What's the potential penalty for trusting that pilot and plane? Yikes! But what's the personal penalty, the negative consequence, for believing in bigfoot, ghosts, or UFOs? Even the narliest believers can and will get skeptical (albeit, surgically) when they perceive the results of not being skeptical to be dire. I also disagree with Dr. T (would he be Mr. T’s neurologist?). The fact is that *everybody* is a skeptic, varying only in degree, consistency, and efficacy. This is something I use when trying to talk with a believer – I look for examples of when he or she has been skeptical and suggest they apply the same process to the woo woo belief in question. That guy who believes wholeheartedly in ghosts, bigfoot, and UFOs as aliens ships? Watch him get all skeptical as he approaches an aircraft, suitcase in hand, and sees that the plane is leaking fuel, has parts hanging loose, and the pilot is drunk.

What’s the potential penalty for trusting that pilot and plane? Yikes! But what’s the personal penalty, the negative consequence, for believing in bigfoot, ghosts, or UFOs?

Even the narliest believers can and will get skeptical (albeit, surgically) when they perceive the results of not being skeptical to be dire.

]]> By: BillDarryl http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1106 BillDarryl Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:49:29 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1106 And Dr. Novella delivers the Logical Fallacy Smackdown! Love it. But I'll disagree with you, Dr. T, from a different angle - history is LOADED with examples of extreme minority positions being persistent and pulling off the seemingly impossible task of eventually changing the minds of the majority. So we know it can be done because it HAS been done. And Dr. Novella delivers the Logical Fallacy Smackdown! Love it.

But I’ll disagree with you, Dr. T, from a different angle – history is LOADED with examples of extreme minority positions being persistent and pulling off the seemingly impossible task of eventually changing the minds of the majority.

So we know it can be done because it HAS been done.

]]> By: Max http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1105 Max Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:37:55 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1105 The war metaphor implies that the goal is total victory. How far should we take this analogy? The war metaphor implies that the goal is total victory. How far should we take this analogy?

]]> By: Steven Novella http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/12/01/skeptical-battlegrounds-part-i-%e2%80%93-background/#comment-1104 Steven Novella Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:10:49 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=544#comment-1104 Dr. T - I have to disagree with your pessimism. You are also committing a false dichotomy - treating victory or failure as complete. There is a vast middle ground where we can make a significant difference, even if it is less that total victory. The point is to have a positive influence on society, not to achieve ultimate victory. Dr. T – I have to disagree with your pessimism. You are also committing a false dichotomy – treating victory or failure as complete. There is a vast middle ground where we can make a significant difference, even if it is less that total victory. The point is to have a positive influence on society, not to achieve ultimate victory.

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