Comments on: Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/ The official blog of the Skeptologists Sat, 11 Feb 2012 21:38:44 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Ben http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-1757 Ben Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:34:10 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-1757 Thank you for the interesting read. I have been curious about the juxtaposition of Chinese superstition with prominent Chinese scientists. Thank you for the interesting read. I have been curious about the juxtaposition of Chinese superstition with prominent Chinese scientists.

]]> By: Paul http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-1375 Paul Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:29:58 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-1375 My wife is Chinese and I am constantly confronting Chinese superstitions. That being said many of these "superstitions may have some basis in fact. For example, regarding the story of the man who would leave his wife in order to have a son, I think science actually supports the "Chinese way." People educated in basic biology "know" that the man determines the sex of the child because he must contribute the y chromosome for there to be a boy. But this completely misses the point. Studies have shown the men produce sperm with y chromosomes and x chromosomes in roughly equal number so that from the the man's prospective he literally is contributing nothing to the chance of having a male or female, because just based on the contributed sperm the chance of having either are equal. And yet, statistics will show that families with children of all or overwhelmingly the same sex are much more frequent that random chance would produce. The answer lies in the fact that there are certain environmental conditions within the female reproductive tract such as acidity, etc. which tend to favor the survival of sperm with either the y or x chromosome. Thus, it is the woman's body which is doing the selecting by creating the conditions which favor the production of one gender over another. The man would probably have better luck having a son with another woman. My wife is Chinese and I am constantly confronting Chinese superstitions. That being said many of these “superstitions may have some basis in fact. For example, regarding the story of the man who would leave his wife in order to have a son, I think science actually supports the “Chinese way.” People educated in basic biology “know” that the man determines the sex of the child because he must contribute the y chromosome for there to be a boy. But this completely misses the point. Studies have shown the men produce sperm with y chromosomes and x chromosomes in roughly equal number so that from the the man’s prospective he literally is contributing nothing to the chance of having a male or female, because just based on the contributed sperm the chance of having either are equal. And yet, statistics will show that families with children of all or overwhelmingly the same sex are much more frequent that random chance would produce. The answer lies in the fact that there are certain environmental conditions within the female reproductive tract such as acidity, etc. which tend to favor the survival of sperm with either the y or x chromosome. Thus, it is the woman’s body which is doing the selecting by creating the conditions which favor the production of one gender over another. The man would probably have better luck having a son with another woman.

]]> By: Step To It Science Superstitions (I Don’t Cheerlead In These Shoes) http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-858 Step To It Science Superstitions (I Don’t Cheerlead In These Shoes) Thu, 20 Nov 2008 03:26:17 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-858 [...] great posts I’ve read on skepticism on SkepticBlog. There’s ones by Yau-Man Chan on ‘Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective’ that I’ve really enjoyed and although he talks about his rich personal experience with [...] [...] great posts I’ve read on skepticism on SkepticBlog. There’s ones by Yau-Man Chan on ‘Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective’ that I’ve really enjoyed and although he talks about his rich personal experience with [...]

]]> By: What Would Wolverine Do? Probably Enjoy The Sunshine… http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-549 What Would Wolverine Do? Probably Enjoy The Sunshine… Thu, 06 Nov 2008 14:30:14 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-549 [...] haven’t really kept up any of my RSS feeds due to all of my running around!), on the topic of Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective, which I thought I should make an extended response [...] [...] haven’t really kept up any of my RSS feeds due to all of my running around!), on the topic of Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective, which I thought I should make an extended response [...]

]]> By: Introducing SkepticBlog « Open Parachute http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-501 Introducing SkepticBlog « Open Parachute Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:25:50 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-501 [...] Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective [...] [...] Skepticism — A Cultural Perspective [...]

]]> By: Tony http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-384 Tony Sat, 01 Nov 2008 18:33:01 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-384 I am very disturbed by the rather chiling tendency that people who hold cultural ideolgies, superstitions, and pseudo beliefs demonstrate when confronted with evidence-based proof of their illegitamacy - they tend to typically reject such proofs. This may be due to a lack of real understanding of the scientific method but it is more likely a result of fear. Letting go of myths and beliefs that may have made meaning in your world, or contemplating defiance of the moral authority figures in your family and culture, may be too frightening to contemplate. I recently attended the 18th International AIDS conference and was struck by how many examples existed of this phenomenon. For example, even when confronted with research which showed that schoolchildren in the US who received sex education and were given safer sex tools reduced their risk of HIV infection, innumerable schools continue to keep to their abstinence/ignorance model. Thus they would rather risk children's lives than act in conflict with their moral dogma. I am very disturbed by the rather chiling tendency that people who hold cultural ideolgies, superstitions, and pseudo beliefs demonstrate when confronted with evidence-based proof of their illegitamacy – they tend to typically reject such proofs. This may be due to a lack of real understanding of the scientific method but it is more likely a result of fear. Letting go of myths and beliefs that may have made meaning in your world, or contemplating defiance of the moral authority figures in your family and culture, may be too frightening to contemplate.

I recently attended the 18th International AIDS conference and was struck by how many examples existed of this phenomenon. For example, even when confronted with research which showed that schoolchildren in the US who received sex education and were given safer sex tools reduced their risk of HIV infection, innumerable schools continue to keep to their abstinence/ignorance model. Thus they would rather risk children’s lives than act in conflict with their moral dogma.

]]> By: Armando Simon http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-296 Armando Simon Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:06:10 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-296 Boy, did this article struck such a strong chord with me! I, too, am an immigrant and so is my wife, though from different countries. I'm originally from Cuba; however, my attitude towards superstition in Cubans is frankly hostile. Unfortunately, there have been times in the past that this resulted in my failure in hooking up with some gorgeous Cuban girl who expressed these beliefs. I find it very embarrassing, particularly if it comes from someone who has lived most of their lives in the USA. My God, where to start? Well, for one thing, let's try "santeria," a quasi-religious, semi-voodoo claptrap. Essentially, it deals with shamans going into trances after drinking a lot of alcohol and communicating with African gods. Oftentimes a dead chicken or cat is waved over a person's head or is slapped on her face. Santeria has gained a lot of respect in this country for two reasons: (1) it is mostly, though not exclusively, practiced by Cuban blacks and, of course, anything that blacks do we are supposed to automatically and unquestionably praise (like rap). (2) Since it comes from Cuba and the brutal Communist dictatorship has thousands of admirers in the United States, it is likewise automatically praised. But, aside from santeria, there is also the run of the mill superstitions, like having a fit if a hat is left on top of the bed, or an umbrella is opened inside or if one rocks a rocking chair without anyone sitting on it. My favorite,though, is attributing a large species of moth, native to Cuba and Florida with it being a witch. Whenever some Cuban expresses any of these beliefs, I feel like going into a closet and hiding inside. And don't get me started on dreams! My Indonesian wife has made an effort to rid herself of her culture's superstition (and believe it or not I HAVE been very tolerant with her, not voicing my objections at all). She has slowly absorbed the rationality in American culture and the fact that I didn't reinforce some of her superstitions (like avoiding certain days of the week, or adhering to fengshui) without repercussions resulting from . . . the gods? . . . helped also. She, herself has remarked on the transformation of her character since she began to live in the United States; perhaps it is due in part because there were no other Indonesians to reinforce her beliefs. One thing she IS upset about, though: she dreamed of having caught fishes . . . and she did not win the lottery. Boy, did this article struck such a strong chord with me! I, too, am an immigrant and so is my wife, though from different countries. I’m originally from Cuba; however, my attitude towards superstition in Cubans is frankly hostile. Unfortunately, there have been times in the past that this resulted in my failure in hooking up with some gorgeous Cuban girl who expressed these beliefs. I find it very embarrassing, particularly if it comes from someone who has lived most of their lives in the USA. My God, where to start? Well, for one thing, let’s try “santeria,” a quasi-religious, semi-voodoo claptrap. Essentially, it deals with shamans going into trances after drinking a lot of alcohol and communicating with African gods. Oftentimes a dead chicken or cat is waved over a person’s head or is slapped on her face. Santeria has gained a lot of respect in this country for two reasons: (1) it is mostly, though not exclusively, practiced by Cuban blacks and, of course, anything that blacks do we are supposed to automatically and unquestionably praise (like rap). (2) Since it comes from Cuba and the brutal Communist dictatorship has thousands of admirers in the United States, it is likewise automatically praised. But, aside from santeria, there is also the run of the mill superstitions, like having a fit if a hat is left on top of the bed, or an umbrella is opened inside or if one rocks a rocking chair without anyone sitting on it. My favorite,though, is attributing a large species of moth, native to Cuba and Florida with it being a witch. Whenever some Cuban expresses any of these beliefs, I feel like going into a closet and hiding inside. And don’t get me started on dreams!
My Indonesian wife has made an effort to rid herself of her culture’s superstition (and believe it or not I HAVE been very tolerant with her, not voicing my objections at all). She has slowly absorbed the rationality in American culture and the fact that I didn’t reinforce some of her superstitions (like avoiding certain days of the week, or adhering to fengshui) without repercussions resulting from . . . the gods? . . . helped also. She, herself has remarked on the transformation of her character since she began to live in the United States; perhaps it is due in part because there were no other Indonesians to reinforce her beliefs. One thing she IS upset about, though: she dreamed of having caught fishes . . . and she did not win the lottery.

]]> By: Joe http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-213 Joe Wed, 29 Oct 2008 22:01:39 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-213 Yau-Man, I guess your friends/relatives in the Chinese community believe your sckepticism is the reason you didn't win Survivor 2007 (?) Yau-Man,

I guess your friends/relatives in the Chinese community believe your sckepticism is the reason you didn’t win Survivor 2007 (?)

]]> By: Shahar lubin http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-163 Shahar lubin Wed, 29 Oct 2008 09:53:01 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-163 I'm and Israeli-American atheist jew traveling SEA at this time. I met a viatnamese guy who ended up breaking up with his intended wife on account of his family being against their chinese astrological signs. The acceptance of chinese superstition is rampant among left leaning westerners as well. How often did I hear the line "you can't check asian medicine using western tools". The worst kind of special pleading fallacy. This would usually come from people who will gladly attack and criticize the christian and jewish faith. They flock to buddihsm and opther eastern schools without taking it to task for the same misoginism and nonsense of they parent's faith. Women are just between animals and men in the reincarnation cycle and so forth. Speaking of "asian/chinese/eastern medicine", we need to stop using this term as well as "alternative medicine". This is falling into the trap of quackery that give it validity. I believe we need to move on towards the term "evidence base medicine". In countering mumbo jumbo we need to learn how to approach it without antagonizing people. Like all ancient medical philosphies, the chinese did come up with many things that work. Those things they explained with theories. We now have better theories that are better in explaining those phenomona and better in predicting effects. Acupancture has actual effect, but many non real ones have been attached to it. I believe it's better to accept their theories as early ones that have evolved since then. Einstein hasa proven Newton wrong, but we don't go around attacking Newton as a crank. I’m and Israeli-American atheist jew traveling SEA at this time. I met a viatnamese guy who ended up breaking up with his intended wife on account of his family being against their chinese astrological signs.
The acceptance of chinese superstition is rampant among left leaning westerners as well. How often did I hear the line “you can’t check asian medicine using western tools”. The worst kind of special pleading fallacy. This would usually come from people who will gladly attack and criticize the christian and jewish faith. They flock to buddihsm and opther eastern schools without taking it to task for the same misoginism and nonsense of they parent’s faith. Women are just between animals and men in the reincarnation cycle and so forth.
Speaking of “asian/chinese/eastern medicine”, we need to stop using this term as well as “alternative medicine”. This is falling into the trap of quackery that give it validity. I believe we need to move on towards the term “evidence base medicine”.
In countering mumbo jumbo we need to learn how to approach it without antagonizing people. Like all ancient medical philosphies, the chinese did come up with many things that work. Those things they explained with theories. We now have better theories that are better in explaining those phenomona and better in predicting effects. Acupancture has actual effect, but many non real ones have been attached to it. I believe it’s better to accept their theories as early ones that have evolved since then. Einstein hasa proven Newton wrong, but we don’t go around attacking Newton as a crank.

]]> By: Yau-Man Chan http://www.skepticblog.org/2008/10/24/a-cultural-perspective/#comment-125 Yau-Man Chan Tue, 28 Oct 2008 18:53:15 +0000 http://skepticblog.org/?p=1#comment-125 Thanks for the comments. Yes, I will be commenting on the origins of some of these superstitions in subsequent blogs. The absence of 4th and 14th floor (and even 10th floor depending on the regional dialect) is relatively harmless - I guess no worse than our tristadecaphobia in the West. As for giving clocks and watch, you can actually do it - all you have to do is enclose a coin (of any denomination)or a currency bill in a red envelope in the gift box. When the receiver finds the coin or bill, he will give it to you and all is well and good since he has in effect purchased the clock/watch from you! Same goes with knives, scissors and other sharp objects as gifts. The logic is not unlike Islamic brothels where the customer upon entry signs a marriage certificate and when business is completed, signs the divorce papers on the way out! Sad but true. Thanks for the comments. Yes, I will be commenting on the origins of some of these superstitions in subsequent blogs. The absence of 4th and 14th floor (and even 10th floor depending on the regional dialect) is relatively harmless – I guess no worse than our tristadecaphobia in the West.

As for giving clocks and watch, you can actually do it – all you have to do is enclose a coin (of any denomination)or a currency bill in a red envelope in the gift box. When the receiver finds the coin or bill, he will give it to you and all is well and good since he has in effect purchased the clock/watch from you! Same goes with knives, scissors and other sharp objects as gifts. The logic is not unlike Islamic brothels where the customer upon entry signs a marriage certificate and when business is completed, signs the divorce papers on the way out! Sad but true.

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